View Full Version : Weak spark..... help
04-22-2009, 12:18 PM
Before i start riffling parts at it my odyssey that is.What is happening is a weak yellow spark if the stator (ignition) coil was bad would it be no spark at all.and if the spark plug coil was bad would that to be no spark also .I'm leaning toward the condenser does this increase spark ?.the system is an old contact point style 1977 Honda 250 any help would really be appreciated thanks guys and gals
04-22-2009, 06:06 PM
clean the points with a fine tooth file and set them to the recommended gap.
04-23-2009, 10:16 AM
Certainly rule out the condenser because what you describe surely could be caused by the condenser. They are cheap and they do go bad. Points either work or they don't.
Might want to get those old style breaker points out of there and upgrade to solid state. It is cheap and easy and you never will be doing the points and condenser again.
04-23-2009, 11:01 PM
Check the ground. Take it apart and clean it even if it looks ok
04-24-2009, 06:28 AM
thanks for all the input.i removed engine going to check points and clean and reattach a new ground strap.I wish i could up grade to cdi i;m sure the headaches would go away for sure.you have to change a lot... stator, coils, pick up,flywheel and cdi control module?
I've been following this thread. Is it fixed?
04-24-2009, 12:07 PM
You don't need to do all that to switch. Get on the web and do some research.
For about $10-15, the cdi modul which is about the size of a bandaid pad, with a couple wires sticking out of it which eliminate the points and condenser only. Rest of the stuff stays the same. It times the spark and advances it all in one. Cheap and can be done with any old points and condenser machine. Cheap easy and reliable way to move into the 20th century.
04-25-2009, 05:28 AM
samc not yet.thanks boondocker i did some reading it states Use on most mower enigines
Use separate modules for each cylinder in multi-cylinder applications
Low RPM operating abiltiy for fast, easy starts with electronic dependability
Used to replace points & condensor
(((Not to be used with battery ignition or engines with multiple magnets in the flywheel))
Retrofits over 95% of all small air-cooled engines.
Please note that the old flat style modules are being phased out and will not be available once they are sold out.
The new style module is functionally the same with a different appearance....My oddy has a light coil and a ignition coil using mutable magnets not sure if these would work.
04-25-2009, 07:26 PM
Buy em, try em, and whatcha got to loose? IF they work, you will be light years ahead.
04-26-2009, 09:01 AM
boon, he's trying NOT to throw parts at his machine
Do a little more research before you waste your money. There is never a refund on electrical parts. Points systems are fine. Tyr an find a guy who knows that system and you'll be good, patients my friend
04-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Thanks again i e-mailed them my concerns waiting for reply back I'll keep you all posted.it sure would be great to get out of the dark ages with this project. greg
04-26-2009, 11:39 AM
I would replace the point and condenser if you have it a part. They're usually cheap to buy. I have a repair manual if you need any specs or any other info. Let me know GOOD LUCK
04-26-2009, 12:04 PM
Skidoolis, Try to do a check on the ignition coil on the stator plate. There should be two coils on the plate one for the light and one for the ignition. You should be able to do a resistance test on it. Also check the sheer key they were notorious for sheering these things.I would start there and work your way up the ignition sytem. Need specs let me know.
04-26-2009, 01:30 PM
polaris yes there is a lighting coil and a primary coil specs would be great and as for sheer pin I'll check that out to.I had the rotor (flywheel)off if the key way is worm down and flywheel advanced or retard would this cause weak spark or no spark thanks for the info greg they look just like this one on eBay http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/109573.jpg
04-28-2009, 06:25 AM
got a reply back bummer ....Although we do not deal in motorcycle/atv type products, I'm pretty sure that we will *not* have a suitable ignition module kit for your application. Item 29-1089 that you are inquiring about will not work. I'm going with the points and condenser as recommended by you folks its the cheapest thanks Greg
04-28-2009, 07:04 PM
Greg, I finally got the book. To test the stator use an ohm meter and check for continuity between the black and yellow wires going to the stator.If there is no continuity infinite ohms this indicates an open in one or both coils and they must be replaced. If you have continuity your alright.It sounds to me if they are bad you should be able to replace the coils themselves not the whole stator plate. Let me read up on trouble shooting weak spark and I'll get back to you.
04-28-2009, 11:38 PM
Greg,Book says to check for burned,pitted improperly gapped points. Weak ignition coil or condenser. loose electrical connections. Engine ground wire loose or broken. It wouldn't hurt to check the ground or make a new one.They say to test the condenser Connect the lead to positive side of a battery and the case to the negative let it charge for a few seconds and quickly touch the lead to the case and check for a spark if a spark is there the condenser is ok.I've never done that before but that's what is in the manual. It does not say what kind of battery to use to test with. The system is 6volt. You could probably use a small 9 volt battery to charge the condenser.After reading this I'm leaning towards the condenser being bad. I would replace it. It is easy to get to it is right on your ignition coil.
04-29-2009, 04:55 AM
clay thanks for the specs i put a offer on a condenser/points and a spark plug on eBay good price $19.00 for all three items.Should be getting them soon quicker then a dealer they laugh every time i bring up this dinosaur for parts thanks again for your help... Greg. I should of thought of the condenser test we used to do that with the 12 volt ones all the time.we would charge them up and toss them to a fellow wrench zap ya every time lol thanks i have to go back to work see ya... Greg
06-08-2009, 03:14 PM
Update installed new points i;m getting a faint blue spark all the time now i tried two different coils even one had no condenser and still weak spark.i did check continuity between yellow and black wire meter read ol .now checking black wire to case reads 0.05 turn crank by hand then it 0.00.if the primary coil is bad would there be no spark at all??.thanks again sorry for taking so long i have so many projects trying to get a an old 86 honda shadow vt500 going also thanks greg
06-09-2009, 07:20 PM
You are right, If the primary coil was bad you would have no spark. Sounds like you improved the spark from yellow to blue. Did you try to run it? With these old systems you are not going to get a huge crack of spark but as long as its blue now you should be ok. Good luck
06-10-2009, 05:32 AM
I was expecting a big spark like my sled.at least the spark is consistent i think the points were cooked i;ll give it a spin thanks Greg
06-16-2009, 08:53 AM
Skidoolis, Is she a runner or is there still problems?
06-24-2009, 07:20 AM
Sorry for the delay we have been on Vancouver Island B.C for the last week and a half what a blast tagged in to a 25 lbs spring salmon man they taste great.back to the oddy i;ll be working on it this weekend do to all the money gone fore trip thanks i;ll keep you posted... Greg
06-24-2009, 11:46 AM
Didn't take the time to read all the post so I don't know if this was covered or not but check your wire resistance also and make sure it isn't cracked, plug boot also.
08-11-2009, 03:18 AM
08-12-2009, 08:12 AM
bouncer no i have been so busy working on a Honda shadow i bought to resale. got the bike all done. the oddy is next I'll get ya up to speed installed new points and now i am getting weak blue spark at least the spark is consistent now (if the ignition coil windings/stator were bad would it be no spark at all ?).I pulled it over and it backed fired not sure if magneto flywheel is off i have to check key way someone mentioned that.I am going to go with a new spark plug coil and spark plug boot ngk style. thanks Greg ps i might install a Yamaha et 340 twin engine i have not sure yet thanks again Greg
09-28-2009, 05:28 PM
UPDATE well i finally got it what a pain some good trouble shooting i learned thats one way to learn the stuff you drive. it fires right up now after removing cam lube and reistalling it the right way. good spark and now carb leaking i think it needs rebuild thanks for all your folks help http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/115414.jpg
09-28-2009, 05:39 PM
Glad you got it fixed.http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif
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