Trailer brake install part II

[chadlyt]

i had a post earlier called "surge brakes".

I have run into a problem and i'm not sure which direction to go.

I have ez-lube spindles. i ordered up new brakes, hubs, the whole bit. I went to test fit the bearing, and it was snug. so snug, that it wont come off...(and yes, i lubed the shaft before i put it on, dont even go there)

So my question is.<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> how do i get it off..#2 please dont tell me it wont work cause it says &#34;made in china&#34; on it.

Really though, is it because it is 35 degrees? i have no clue...you can tel i am beat. 15 minutes, in, i&#39;m stuck.

[wags]

Do you have a puller? If not go rent one, simple to get off with the correct tools.

Good Luck

[chadlyt]

i&#39;l have to get one...but i cant understand why it wont &#34;easily&#34; slide on or off for that matter. As soon as i started to feel it get tight, i tryed backing it off and there it sits. stuck.

I&#39;m supposed to use this stupid thing...

[anonomoose]

Easy to get it cocked. I use a socket that fits just inside the hub and tap to get the races off and bearings usually don&#39;t fit that tight on the spindles.

Pullers are cheaply purchased and you should have one for this job. If the jaws are set right it will straighten the race and it should come off easier.

In a pinch, you can put a big block of ice on the spindle then you take your propane torch and lightly heat the race.<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> should expand enough to come off the spindle that way. Use gloves to pull the hot race off.

[polarisrider1]

You may have a slight burr on the shaft from a previous bearing gone bad. Clean shaft up with some emory cloth after you remove the bearing. I have tapped bearings off with a bronze hammer before without wrecking them. Taps, not all out pounding from the back side. puller is better way to go if you have one. They are cheap to buy at Harbor frt.

[chadlyt]

ok, i&#39;ll be stopping to pick on up at Northern Tool later today.

I looked at the other side and it sits tight just like the other one.

This is pretty much my exact install. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtzPmNNM34M except at 2:45, mine doenst do that it wont go the extra half inch to the seal on the back...

[anonomoose]

Chad, as the video demonstrates, you should be able to put that race right on there and off without much need for a puller....so that means something isn&#39;t right. Either as Polaris says, there is a burr on there, or the spindle is buggered up somehow, or the race isn&#39;t good. For sure if the race won&#39;t get snug to the inner side of the spindle, without hammering, I would look at the bearing sizes to be sure you haven&#39;t picked up a wrong size bearing set. It should go tight to the end of the spindle, as it will have to do that to keep bearing grease from escaping between the seal and the race.

It should be snug...but not so tight that you have to hammer on it.

[chadlyt]

yea, i&#39;m about to give up.

there is an additional &#34;lip&#34; on the spindle. so the bearing wont go on. not sure how the old hub went one, but it didnt fit all the way up.

I took off the front hub and i ahve got a bigger problem. the nut was not held on by anything other than pure tightness...the &#34;clips&#34; were broken off and were freely gouging the heck out of the spindle.

I am very close to buying new axles...not sure how i get a trailer to the welder with no wheels on the left side...

[snowfish]

Breath Chad, Breath. All is not lost. Check both inner and outer bearing numbers from your old hub. If they&#39;re the same as the new ones, they&#39;ll work.

Your spindle threads can be chased back into shape. It&#39;s probably a 1&#34;. Over half of the bearing services, that I do, require the spindle threads to be cleaned up so I can get the proper bearing tension. &#40;or lack of actually. Snug but a frog hair loose&#41;Wish you were closer. You could borrow mine, or I&#39;d come over and help.

Emery cloth is a must to knock down those nasty burrs that are giving you fits. I buy belt sander belts, tear them into strips, and use them to tickle the spindle back into shape.

Are you sure that the old race isn&#39;t still on the spindle? Did the old ones come off all together? Or in pieces?

Post some pics or send them directly to me. Try to post them here so the rest can see and learn. I&#39;m sure I can coach you through.

Again, breath. Your closer than you think.

[chadlyt]

it seems the old hubs that were on there are different. I evne tried using the old bearings. also, there arent any races on this setup...is that normal?

I&#39;ll get some pics up after work. In the video link, that is pretty much my exact setup. ther eare burs and there are good sized gouges in one spindle. I still have 2 on the other side ot check.

I&#39;m just discouraged at this point. I&#39;m pretty sure i ordered the correct items too...but at this point, i cant even put the old crap back on.

[chadlyt]

ok pics,

front spindle damage
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118159.jpg
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118160.jpg
rear with with brake on
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118161.jpg
inside bearing size
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118162.jpg
size of middle of shaft
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118163.jpg
outer bearing size
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118164.jpg
front threaded size
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118165.jpg
front drum and rear drum
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118166.jpg

[snowfish]

Now that&#39;s something we can work with. I&#39;ll double check some bearing sizes when I get to the office tomorrow first thing. The 1.359 to 1.376 is a pretty big step. Are both axles the same? Meaning the same step?

Those spindles do look kind of ugly, but we&#39;ve saved much worse. Going to take some &#34;belt sander strips&#34; and a bit of patience, but you should be fine.

Pick up a one inch die, standard thread, and clean the castle nut threads. You&#39;ll need them clean and free to adjust the bearings. You&#39;ll need new tang washers &#40;the flip over lock washers&#41;. I&#39;ll send 4 if you need them.

I know it&#39;s a pain, but you probably want to take those e-brake backers off to give you more room to work. The axle seal surfaces needs to be pretty smooth too. If they&#39;re too badly scarred, we have speedi sleeves to fix that.

More in the morning. Oh, one more thing.....what year is your Triton?

[coldbear]

Man have you ever considered a complete new axle?It looks like you&#39;re headin&#39; to trouble with that rig.Also the salt play&#39;s tricks on the rubber torsions after awhile.

[chadlyt]

snowfish,

first off, thanks for all the advice and help.

my Triton is a Dec 1999 build.

the e-backers aren&#39;t a problem. only took me 5 minutes to put them on.

Both axle spindles step up that little bit.

I&#39;ll pick up some belt sander strips and see what i can do. of course we are supposed to get a monsoon all day tomorrow. It will just give me time to get the parts i need i guess.

Without looking i bet the inner bearings i have sitting outside are all 1-5/8&#34;

[chadlyt]

so these belt sander strips...what grit?

[skeeter2010]

120 or 220 grit

[snowfish]

Your bearings are fine as long as your Inner Bearing is a L68149
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118227.jpg
And your outer Bearing is a L44649.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118228.jpg
Your measurement is a frog hair more because you&#39;ve got a burr that needs to be smoothed out.

Those spindles are really hard. The finer grits are great for the final touch up. But course grit &#40;50&#41; is needed to knock down the mountains.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118229.jpg
Coarse Grit 50, Fine Grit, Clean, Oil, Test, and repeat until it slides on with minimal resistance. The Inner Bearing needs to butt up to the Seal shoulder.

Use Only the 150 or finer for the Seal Surface. By looking at your first and second image, the Seal Surface should be able to be cleaned up and work fine. The image with the backer installed and seal test fitted needs to cleaned up as well. &#40;that was just a test fit for the seal, right? They need to be pressed into the hub, before install, but you know that&#41;

I&#39;d purge the old grease from the spindles before install. A couple pumps should spit it out with the hubs off.

I try to avoid using Speedi Sleaves on EZ Lube spindles. In most cases, it blocks the grease port rendering it inoperable.

Don&#39;t forget to clean up the Spindle Threads. The Castle Nuts need to turn easily by hand. Soon as this rains stops, you&#39;ll be done in no time! Then let it Snow!

[chadlyt]

Both inner and outer bearings are correct and came with the hub/drum assembly i ordered.

I&#39;ll pick up the sandpaper on the way home. what type of oil can i use?

As you can see in the pic below, i just did a test fit to see how they would fit on. Glad i did or i&#39;d be running to the store for more seals each time...

I&#39;ll see what i can do to clean it all up. Looks like alot of plain elbow grease to get this back on shape.

In the pic below, that bearing will only go that far. should i also sand the area to get the bearing to fit on? I figured i&#39;d have to, i&#39;m still confused as to why the originals wont slide back on.

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118232.jpg

I&#39;ll clean them up and do some test fitting and report back.

[skeeter2010]

Maybe he should try a thread file instead of a die, a 1&#34; is kind of pricey. A thread file or even a knife file would work on a 1&#34; thread judging from the axle pics and the bearings pics posted he isn&#39;t that far off size. If it was mine I would hit the high spots with a file first and than smooth it with 120 grit you can always sand a little more you are better to have one spot low and have good contact every where else than to have the whole shaft undersized. You may also want to that a marker and color the shaft so that when you slides the bearing over he can find the high spot easier.

I guess everyone has an opinion

[chadlyt]

correct, everyone has opinions. Thats what can be really good on forums...or bad, but bot hare great suggestions.

of course, i will have more questions. I have yet to pull off the passenger side yet.

[snowfish]

Only the spindle needs to be sanded. Not the bearing itself. This is an extremely close tolerance fit. Thus the Very Clean &amp; Oil recommendation. Any oil will do. Even the WD-40&#39;s and JB-80&#39;s, of the world, will work fine. I use oil or spray lube because it&#39;s easier to clean off When you have to sand again.

I see some rusty, crusties, and knicks behind the bear on the last image, that needs to go. The seal surface look pretty rugged too.

Yep, lots of elbow grease!

Really doesn&#39;t matter how you clean up the castle nut threads, as long as you can move it by hand.

I picked up a full tap &amp; die set for $75.00 from tools &amp; more, which included the 1 inch tap &amp; die.

No worries, Mate! You about have &#39;er wooped!

[dmsrx]

Buy an extra nut and use a small three sided file to make a thread chaser by filing across the threads. Works great.

[polarisrider1]

Don&#39;t use regular sand paper. You need emory cloth. tear into 1&#34; or so widths by at least 1&#39; lengths. Sand paper falls apart way to easily when it gets oil on it. 120 grit to start, finish with 400 grit. You want to remove the burrs not the gouges. After this project you will never neglect your bearings again. I like to use &#34;bearing buddies&#34; they keep a constant preasure on the grease and seals so water can&#39;t get in and they are easy to use.

[snowfish]

Should have emphasized that we&#39;re not sanding in the oil. The oil is just for test fitting the bearing since it&#39;s such a tight fit. The oil gets cleaned off to sand some more. Hang in there Chad. Rain is about over.

[chadlyt]

i would like to state this:

I bought the trailer a few weeks ago. I was replacing the surge brakes with e-brakes due to the shape they were in, and also that i could control the trailer form the truck.

I ended up tearing into this due to the fact that i kept finding problems. thus where is am at now.

Once i get this thing back in shape, i can get rid of my open trailer, which has perfect bearings :D

[snowfish]

Since you&#39;re probably going to get crackin&#39;, on this project tomorrow, I thought we could summarize the problem childs that need attention.

A Clean Up Threads so nut can be installed by hand
B Outer Spindle - Cleaned up so Bearing can slide to taper. In reality, the outer bearing will not go all the way to the taper. But it needs to be able to seek it&#39;s own level when the hub is installed.
C Center Cavity Spindle – Not critical as long as Inner Bearing can slide past to the Seal Shoulder. Nothing rides on this part. It&#39;s just filled with grease.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118359.jpg
D Inner Spindle – This is the part that&#39;s giving you fits. Inner Bearing needs to sit flush against the Seal Shoulder.
E Seal Shoulder – Needs to be nice and smooth. I&#39;d clean it up a little further back past the rust ridge. Fine grit sand paper or emery cloth. Then we&#39;re sure that the need seal has a nice place to live.

The Bearings are a really close tolerance fit. One little frog hair bur will stop it dead in it&#39;s tracks. When you think that you&#39;re getting close, stick with the finer grit sand paper. The course grit is just to knock down the big stuff. We&#39;re not port and polishing a head here, so it really doesn&#39;t have to be mirror finish smooth. Bearings need to slide on, by hand, no hammering, but without any slop. It&#39;s easy to get them cocked and think that you need to sand more. That&#39;s where the oil, grease, spray lube, etc will help you out.

Even on brand new trailers, that have never been down the road, the bearings can seem to not fit. &#40;adding brakes to an idler axle&#41; When you find the sweet spot, you&#39;ll know it. She&#39;ll slide on with little to no effort.

Again patience, tenacity, and a lot of elbow grease. Tomorrow this will be all behind you. Be sure to share the finished product and any insights about the project. Cheers.

[chadlyt]

just an update. success so far. I was able to assemble one of the four brake/hub assemblies!

this was one of the easier ones, but was one of the first that gave me fits. everything went together perfectly after some light sanding with the emery cloth.

I was able to test fit the bearings on the troubled spindle and they went on. But i need to do a little bit more finish work before i am satisfied.

So far so good. I will probably get to the other side tomorrow to see what kind of a mess i have to deal with there.

One odd thing, I have had one heck of a time finding the tang washers for the castle nuts. I have some on the way from etrailer, so that will be my only hold up. Dummy me thought i could go to any parts store to pick them up.

snowfish, thanks again for you persistence in helping me though this and also thanks to the others that contributed to this little project of mine, or now, ours.

I&#39;m sure i&#39;ll be back with questions from the &#34;right side&#34; stay tuned...

[chadlyt]

another update.

pulled off the passenger side bearings. Had them redone in a matter of minutes. Literally. they were pristine. I&#39;m still waiting for the tang washers, but i should get them today.

Next up. Wiring these bad boys up and replacing the coupler and chains. I have to figure out how to wire into the existing cables yet as they are hidden in the frame real well.

The only item i think i will buy for future work like this is a bearing packer, no more globs on my hands.

[snowfish]

Nice work! Now that you&#39;re on the home stretch, there&#39;s one tiny item that can be a hassle. Used grease caps usually tap back on fairly easily, but the New Ones, sometimes, will fight you all the way. One can buy a Grease Cap Install Tool, but a basic 2&#34; i.d. pipe coupler works great! Or even just a 2&#34; hunk of pipe, trimmed down, will do the trick.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118639.jpg
This way you can keep the cap straight while getting it started. Then you can seat that baby, solid against the hub, without buggering up the new cap.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118640.jpg
This tool works on any 4-5 lug hub. Unless it&#39;s an antique, then that’s&#39; a different story.

At some point soon, you may want to finish off the project with either Acorn Lug Nuts,
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118641.jpg
Some nice hub covers, or even both.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/6/118642.jpg
Eventually your newly installed rims will have to come off. A rusted on nut can be a real treat to remove. I have a feeling that you&#39;ve already experienced that.

Nice Job! Don&#39;t forget to show, us all, the finished product. Cheers!

[polarisrider1]

Nice idea for the grease cap install tool. I have always used a large socket over the cap and tapped them on.

[snowfish]

So brakes or no brakes, Mate? Show us the stuff. How&#39;d she work out?

[chadlyt]

the boss said i needed to take a break. plus getting ready for hunting this weekend. I still need to run the wiring and tie all of that into the plug. I&#39;ll maybe get to that next tuesday...

[chadlyt]

one more update.

I&#39;ve got the wiring all set. ended up just running a new 7 plug on the trailer. wiring had to be the easiest part of this whole thing.

Took her for a spin and the Prodigy controller worked great. &#40;had to wire the controller in the truck too&#41;

I&#39;ve been looking to get pics taken, but daylight savings time screws everything up. Hopefully, in these next few days, I can get some pics up...

snowfish, what kind of trailer cabinet is that you had shown me in the other post? If i cant make it up there, i&#39;d at least like to try to find one locally.

[snowfish]

Nicely done Chadlyt! The Helmet Cabinets are made by Haulmark trailers out of Bristol IN. If you have a Haulmark dealer, close by, they should have one or be able to order one for you. Cheers.