Without all the fancy terms thrown at me, what oil should I use?

[indy_500]

Used Arctic Blue for the last 8 years. 2 fuji motor sleds ran great. Never any problems. Had a 550 sport Touring and blew up twice in less then 5000 miles. blew up once at 100 miles. well, i got rid of that sled. i don't know if i wanna stick with arctic blue. hard to find sometimes, runs out fast at fleet farm. thinking of going with citgo sea and snow, or polaris oil. i don't really want to spend a lot on oil, i got a 99 indy 500 if that helps.

[rakins800]

Amsoil

[indy_500]

i know i know but amsoil is a heck of a lot a money for a 99 500 i can get coupons and stock up on polaris oil pretty cheap. but citgo sea and snow is awful tempting

[littlewagner]

indy i would run the polaris blue or citgo sea an snow I had amsoil in the old sled an she blew up. went to polaris ves an she ran like a top. and amsoil gets pricy.

[classic_rider]

indy theres a reason the shelves are empty half the time,,,,lots of us use it ,,,,,,,look on back of your bottle find the web site and look it up,,
it just may be polaris oil or cat oil,its from a plant in northern minnesota, there is only a couple places that bottle it ,,,same stuff different color,, weve used it for years, and buy it the same place you do lol

[sledusa]

My friends and I use Amsoil and never had a problem. I think it's the best oil dollar for dollar.

[mxz500rider]

Yamalube s2 is what i ran in my 01 mxz 500. no problems. and the rave valves were pretty decent after 4500 miles. i just got an 02 edge x 600 with 1600 miles that had yamalube an d the valves were perfect. all i had to do was wipe them off with a rag and brake clean. local polaris dealer told me there is no difference between the polaris blue and yamalube.

[eao]

fyi

OEM Yamaha 2-stroke oil is a Torco product (re-labeled), the Ski-Doo oil comes from Castrol, Polaris and Arctic Cat oils are blended by LubeTech (a private label bottler (Minnesota) for many of the small engine oems).

[Hoosier]

eao - any way to verify that? I'm not doubting you, but it would be good to know...

[eao]

I suppose you could if you wanted to spend years tracking it down.

The info was shared with me by others in the lube business but I cannot prove it. Most of the OEM's will not make this info public except Polaris acknowledged Lube-Tech on one of their web pages devoted to racing.

[zr580]

amsoil

[dab102999]

I have had real good luck with injex pro. Can usually get it for around $14 a gallon. I used to buy it in bulk for $11 a gallon. Ran it for a lot of years now. If I run out or don't have any my second choice in Yammy lube. I base that totally on past use and not being disapointed with it and also when it is real cold out it pours nice so I would think that would translate into easier mixing with the fuel.

[thebreeze]

for a non powervalve motor, I would use any non synthetic 2 stoke oil. Citgo sea and snow or other comparible low cost oils. any 30-40 dollar gallon of oil types are a waste of $$ on a non powervalved trail motor in my opinion.

[famousguy]

Union 76 Unimix. $3 per quart.

Have a combined 100,000 plus miles using it between my sleds and my brother's sleds.

No engine failures due to oil.

In all of those miles on those machines, we lost 1 piston, and that was found to be a manufacturing defect by Ski-Doo.

[twistgrip]

Me and my buddies use Arctic Blue, its a semi synthetic mineral based oil. A very reputable engine builder thats rebiult and modifies engines said the motors he tears apart look the best with those type of oils.

[shawn_grams]

Farm Oyl, see farm Oyl in disscusion board

[brown50rn]

INDY 500 I JUST BOUGHT SEVERAL GALLONS OF CITGO SEA AND SNOW FOR MY BRAND NEW RENEGADE,AFTER DOING EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ITS AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN AMSOIL AND SKIDOO OIL AND HALF THE MONEY!! I used to run amsoil.

[dooski_dan]

So you don't really have to use the synthetic oil for the newer sleds then? I have a 2005 REV and would be happy if I didn't have to spend $35 on a gallon of oil. If that's the case I'll try the Citgo brand.

[brown50rn]

I had an 05 renegade that I ran synthetic blend, no problems, I have an 09 renegade now and the dealer told me to run the blend. Read the comments on Sea and Snow,
i switched to it.

[rakins800]

brown50rn- please list your "extensive research" so us regular joes can verify your findings.

[snosnake]

I have used Citgo Sea & Snow in my 07 Polaris IQ 600 for 2,900 miles. I am pleased with the performance and price. I clean my exhaust valves every season. They appear the same as when I previously used Polaris Gold. My brother has also used Sea & Snow in his 07 800 Rev. We both recommend the oil.

[longtrack]

Brown50, are you going to run Citgo in a ETEK?

[brown50rn]

I dont have the etek. I have 800r power TEK. So I cant help ya there. I am almost positive Doo only makes the etek in the 600 models, but I have been wrong before.

[brown50rn]

rakins 800- I am just a regular joe as well!! My research if thats what you want to call it consisted of reading input from everyone on this board along with other boards. I used the word extensive just because I spent hours upon hours looking at websites and comparing. I went to all the oil website's and compared the certifications and testing results. After looking at the websites, Sea and Snow passes every cert. that all the other brands do. I am sure you have looked but I was impressed with what the guys were saying about the S&S on the Tech Talk Page. I am as anal as they come and wouldnt put something in my sleds if I didnt think it was good. The price dont mean squat to me!! Go to citogo home page and you can look at the product there.

[rakins800]

dont forget,sea and snow is a Hugo Chavez product. as in Venezualan product.just sayin.

how did I do,nash??

[frnash]

<font color="0000ff">rakins800:
&#34;how did I do,nash??&#34;</font>
Close: <strike>Venezualan</strike> = Venezuelan. http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

[brown50rn]

I am not even gonna get in to that debate. I know where it comes from and I know where I am gonna pour it!! right in my sled. We could debate where products are made and where they come from all day. But it wouldn&#39;t change anything so lets not waste our time.

[aesynthetics]

AMSOIL!

[polarisrider1]

Amsoil.

[hoffmansledder]

AMSOIL!!

[hoffmansledder]

I guess I&#39;m a firm believer in &#34;you get what you pay for&#34;. If you&#39;re going to spend $8,000-$12,000 on a sled, then what is an extra $100 a year in oil. If you have an E-Tek you can ride 2000 miles a year on 4 gal of oil.

[olsmann]

amsoil &#40;like most others&#41; is way overpriced due to a very good marketing campaign, Citgo sea an snow is just as good.&#40;actually i think it has the same or a higher rating&#41; There are guys on this board and others with tons and tons of trouble free miles using the citgo. both on stock and modded sleds.

I personally have over 10K on 3 sleds running it and find the valves to be a little cleaner than oem oil or amsoil. The less a person understands about oils and there rating systems, the more they are willing pay for oil. This topic gets beaten to death over and over on this board and every other site 3 times a year. and the genreal consensus usally ends up being this.

Use amsoil if you dont understand oils and there rating system and your mind set is geared to &#34;it costs more so it must be better&#34; OR run the citgo sea and snow if you do understand oils and the rating systems that are used and you like to save some money. As far as the hugo arguement that is up to you. If you want to buy american use the ams, If you dont care run the citgo. Not sure if the whole snowmobile industry boycotted citgo if it would even make tiny differance in hugo&#39;s profits &#40;might hurt the refinery in texas though?&#41;

Its up to you, you can either pay for a ton of marketing and get a good oil, or you can NOT pay for a ton of marketing and still get a good oil. Either way your sled will be just fine!

[polarisrider1]

The key is you need a oil. lol. Whatever became of &#34;Blue Marble oil&#34;.

[frnash]

<font color="0000ff">hoffmansledder:
&#34;I guess I&#39;m a firm believer in &#39;you get what you pay for&#39; ... what is an extra $100 a year in oil.&#34;</font>
Hey, in that case, have I got a deal for ya: Only $120 per gallon for el cheapo brand &#34;X&#34; oil, but in a nice new fancy, shiny, rich lookin&#39; package, with my own brand name on it! &#40;Of course that&#39;s the way it&#39;s done with many &#34;private label&#34; brands anyway, eh?&#41; http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

[famousguy]

I will be using Crisco this year.

[zltim]

Where does the base oil Amsoil is made from come from?

[indy_500]

i think i might be running sea nd snow http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

[fusion]

Go to a globe, find the closest communist country, with the most despotic dictator, and make sure he&#39;s an enemy of the US capitalist society, and buy that exporters oil. Problem solved.

[polarisrider1]

Canola Oil, Corn goodness. from the heartland. $2.25 to $2.65 a 48 oz. bottle. that is sweet. smells like &#34;Pop Corn&#34; when burned.

[famousguy]

polarisrider1 See, we are on the same page yet again....

How about that indy??

[zrjes]

I prefer Vegetable oil!

You can&#39;t ask &#34;What Oil should I run?&#34; and expect to find a clear choice of what to run. Everyone is going to have their own preferences on oil, just find something that meets OEM specs and makes YOU happy.

Stack

[scalemoto]

I have a 2000 XC 600 - 2006 XC 600 I only use the lest cost oil i can find mix all brands citco sinthetic is BS it&#39;oil. That is all a sled needs.Cheep oil is the best. I have 14000 each sled hard 300 a day UP miles on each of the sleds.Your are stroking your self on this oil BS 30 w motor oil works fine in your injuctors

[olsmann]

&#34;I have a 2000 XC 600 - 2006 XC 600 I only use the lest cost oil i can find mix all brands citco sinthetic is BS it&#39;oil. That is all a sled needs.Cheep oil is the best. I have 14000 each sled hard 300 a day UP miles on each of the sleds.Your are stroking your self on this oil BS 30 w motor oil works fine in your injuctors &#34;


Sorry, but, HUH?

[fusion]

&#34;I have a 2000 XC 600 - 2006 XC 600 I only use the lest cost oil i can find mix all brands citco sinthetic is BS it&#39;oil. That is all a sled needs.Cheep oil is the best. I have 14000 each sled hard 300 a day UP miles on each of the sleds.Your are stroking your self on this oil BS 30 w motor oil works fine in your injuctors&#34;

Flunk seventh thru tenth grade english?
Good lord.

[mride460]

&#34;I have a 2000 XC 600 - 2006 XC 600 I only use the lest cost oil i can find mix all brands citco sinthetic is BS it&#39;oil. That is all a sled needs.Cheep oil is the best. I have 14000 each sled hard 300 a day UP miles on each of the sleds.Your are stroking your self on this oil BS 30 w motor oil works fine in your injuctors&#34;

Flunk seventh thru tenth grade english?
Good lord.

Thats some funny stuff!!!

I like the Extreme 2 cycle that I mail order out of Snow Tech Magazine. I think its made by Fowlers?? Its cheep and it doesnt smell or smoke as bad as most brands. It is also a synthetic blend. Runs in my 500SS nice.

[indy_500]

scalemoto, you lost me too!!

[michaeladams]

slippery oil

[classic_rider]

mmmmmmm popcorn everybody loves popcorn ,,,,,,,follow that trail awhile.......

[ash_lake_ryan]

Just picked up 3 gallons of Citgo Sea & Snow yesterday. $11.79 a gallon at Fleet Farm. This will be my 3rd season running it and no problems yet. I have ran Amsoil, Klotz, Ski-doo, Arctic Cat, & Polaris oil. My valves are never gummed up since I switched to S&S and it is alot cheaper. If you read the back of the container it is a synthetic blend as well.

[dave_m]

I was wondering what to do with the left over oil from deep frying the T-day Turkey... decided to try it in the sled....Worked great....smelled great.....and let me tell ya.. never had a better nights sleep in my life !

[polarisrider1]

I was wondering what to do with the left over oil from deep frying the T-day Turkey... decided to try it in the sled....Worked great....smelled great.....and let me tell ya.. never had a better nights sleep in my life !

I ran the T day turkey oil through a coffee filter to get chunks out first. I am thinking of doing a custom blend. 50-50 peanut oil and canola. What is a canola anyways?

[maxwell]

Used Arctic Blue for the last 8 years. 2 fuji motor sleds ran great. Never any problems. Had a 550 sport Touring and blew up twice in less then 5000 miles. blew up once at 100 miles. well, i got rid of that sled. i don't know if i wanna stick with arctic blue. hard to find sometimes, runs out fast at fleet farm. thinking of going with citgo sea and snow, or polaris oil. i don't really want to spend a lot on oil, i got a 99 indy 500 if that helps.


If you are trying to choose between the Polaris oil and citgo, i don't think you can go wrong with either choice of oil.

[Hoosier]

Has anyone actually found a real study comparing the different oils? I think that's what makes this debate so lively - there's really no way of comparing the various oils, other than listening to other's personal experiences, which are essentially impossible to compare because of so many other variables involved.

Personally, I use amsoil. I ride about 1500-2000 miles a year so in the big picture it's not that much extra money to use this vs. sea and snow. My whole group runs amsoil, so that makes it convenient if someone is running low, and it's usually easy to find, which is nice, because we typically go out for a few days at a time with the saddlebags.

On the other hand, if I am throwing my money away, I'd like to know that also and cut doing so. My pockets aren't very deep and I'd rather spend it on something else. But I'd hate to blow an engine because I tried to cut corners on oil.

[towtruck]

sea and snow is the way to go!
I will have about 10 gallons at the hardware store in Mass if you need some-
hey twist grip - I just put a twist grip on my 800 summit -(the towtruck)
how long will I live?! really how is that working for you?

[SuperTurboDiesel]

Has anyone actually found a real study comparing the different oils? I think that's what makes this debate so lively - there's really no way of comparing the various oils, other than listening to other's personal experiences, which are essentially impossible to compare because of so many other variables involved.

Personally, I use amsoil. I ride about 1500-2000 miles a year so in the big picture it's not that much extra money to use this vs. sea and snow. My whole group runs amsoil, so that makes it convenient if someone is running low, and it's usually easy to find, which is nice, because we typically go out for a few days at a time with the saddlebags.

On the other hand, if I am throwing my money away, I'd like to know that also and cut doing so. My pockets aren't very deep and I'd rather spend it on something else. But I'd hate to blow an engine because I tried to cut corners on oil.


Dear iusmit,

A.) There is plenty of factual information out there. You stated that there is no way to compare the various oils. I hope you are kidding, because that's simply NOT true! Just because people are too LAZY to take the time and educate themselves, doesn't mean that the information is not out there! Specialty oil companies like Amsoil thrive on the average person's naievety!

B.) Listening to other's HONEST personal EXPERIENCES (not their opinions) is a GREAT way to make an informed decision. (Of course it's wise to look at the different oil's spec. sheets as well.)

C.) Amsoil isn't "special" like everyone seems to misguidedly think.
Amsoil has done a knock-out job on marketing and "scare-tactics".
Fact is, synthetic-based oil is synthetic-based oil.
Another Fact: You CAN blend Amsoil with ANY other synthetic oil without problems.
You can even blend it successfully with Citgo's synthetic-blend Sea & Snow, without worry, for example.
Now, would I recommend blending oils constantly? NO, of course not. Would I dump one or the other in my low oil tank? You betcha!

D.) Are you "throwing away" your money? In my professional (and honest) opinion - YES.

E.) Why do you think that there are government specs that all lubricants & oils must adhere to?
- For apples to apples comparisons, that's why!
- To keep consumers from unknowingly being ripped off, that's why!

Think about this:

Well educated people make good decisions. Be a leader, not a "follower". The Amsoil brand is full of "followers".

I'm a leader... Are you?

[rakins800]

SUPER T
OK,I'll ask.
what's your beef with Amsoil?
or do you have a special conection with S&S?
there must be a story behind all this Amsoil bashing. even if you are 100% correct in your statements,it's just not normal to put this much effort into something. especialy something that really does'nt mean a hill of beans to most people-which brand of oil we throw our money away on.
just asking.
ps- can you keep the answer under 100 words?

[rocketman356]

I've gone 4 stroke ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cya,,,,,,,,,thats end up as 5 free drinks when the day is done.

[SuperTurboDiesel]

SUPER T
OK,I'll ask.
what's your beef with Amsoil?
or do you have a special conection with S&S?
there must be a story behind all this Amsoil bashing. even if you are 100% correct in your statements,it's just not normal to put this much effort into something. especialy something that really does'nt mean a hill of beans to most people-which brand of oil we throw our money away on.
just asking.
ps- can you keep the answer under 100 words?

Hmmm... rakins800,

Clearly you won't read AND comprehend either. So again, and I REPEAT, I am NOT BASHING on Amsoil.

However, as I've already stated... Amsoil is over THREE TIMES more expensive than many other oils on the market that do the job just as well, if not better in some instances. That is NOT "bashing" buddy, that is just stating proven FACT.

I do not have any special connection with any oil company. I'm a well-educated adult with 2 college degrees. I'm a professional technician, and have an extensive background in vehicles, machinery, equipment, and lubricants. I am also fully competent enough to know how to read AND fully understand oil specification data sheets, which I've come to realize that the average person does NOT seem to understand at all.

Therefore, when someone asks an opinion about an oil or what they should run in their sled, I merely give them MY opinion, which I strive to base upon FACTS as well as real-world experiences, information and data.

I do NOT deliberately run my mouth, belittle, run-down, or "bash" on others, like so many of you consistantly do here in these forums and threads.

When people ask, I have only been stating the facts, and if you don't like them - well, I'm sorry. Take it up with your oil company and try checking your big fat ego at the door.

BTW, if the expense of oils didn't mean "a hill of beans" to most people, then they would NOT continue to bring up the topic. The fact that it is continually brought up is because people actually DO CARE about pissing away their money if then don't have to!

Some people actually DO WANT to save a buck where they can in this terrible economy. Not everyone has money to "burn" these days.

For the most part, the people that "don't care" (Including YOU) how much money they waste are the guys that have been convinced by Amsoil "smart-marketing" that their oil is worth TRIPLE the cost of other competitive oils on the market.
Well, guess what... we all acknowledge that is their choice, and quite frankly, nobody here is trying to "change" them. So please, let it rest already, would ya?

Besides, for the most part, Amsoil followers are NOT the ones that are asking about different oils. The people that are asking about alternatives are those that understand that there must be better alternatives to overpriced oils (which there are) and they totally reject the theory that spending a lot of money for a given product is always the best answer!

You see, all we keep hearing from you Amsoil guys is the same thing, over and over again... "Amsoil is the best. I don't care about what it costs. Neither should you. I run Amsoil and so should you! Come jump on the Amsoil bandwagon. It's my money, not yours."

Yeah, ok - but SO WHAT?! You offer NO proof, NO reasoning, NO logic. Just a lot of B.S. and running-down other people that don't agree with you.

Yeah, what a total pant-load.

P.S. If you don't like my long answers about this topic (or any other topic for that matter) then just stop reading them! I mean honestly, nobody is putting a gun to your head.
Evidently my responses are so good, that you guys can't seem to get enough of them! I guess that discussing oil for you kids is kinda like the Tiger "Cheetah" Woods story... it's just so darned interesting, you just can't bear to look away!



Do everyone a favor, and quit instigating arguements that you won't win.

[SuperTurboDiesel]

I've gone 4 stroke ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cya,,,,,,,,,thats end up as 5 free drinks when the day is done.

Nah, 6 free drinks!
'Cause I'll have one waiting for ya once you get to the bar after I do on my PROXR 440/800.
(Oh yeah, she's a "sleeper".) Don't worry though, I'll let you get the next 'round! LOL

So hey, is that the pic of your turboed sled? What is it, a Polaris IQ FST or?

(I still gotta admit though, I still prefer 2 strokers in my sleds and quads.)

Ok, perhaps someday I'll get a FST for myself... maybe.

For now I'm going to stick with the turbos in my pickup trucks and my diesel farm tractors. ;-)

[srt20]

Is there any oil that is comparably priced and is as good as Citgo? Just looking for other alternatives.

[blabath]

Blue Marble

[psindust]

Is there any oil that is comparably priced and is as good as Citgo? Just looking for other alternatives.

castrol 2t oil
go get some, I swear I gained a third of a mile an hour on citgo

[cih7250]

**** Super T D I like reading your comments your one well informed guy,keep up the good work. I've run amsoil for years and after reading all this it have got me to start thinking of a differant brand of oil,I like saving money.

[rakins800]

wow. ask a simple question.
what youre looking for is 'midol' or 'pamperin' in the medication section of the store.........

[olsmann]

Hmmm... rakins800,

Clearly you won't read AND comprehend either. So again, and I REPEAT, I am NOT BASHING on Amsoil.

However, as I've already stated... Amsoil is over THREE TIMES more expensive than many other oils on the market that do the job just as well, if not better in some instances. That is NOT "bashing" buddy, that is just stating proven FACT.

I do not have any special connection with any oil company. I'm a well-educated adult with 2 college degrees. I'm a professional technician, and have an extensive background in vehicles, machinery, equipment, and lubricants. I am also fully competent enough to know how to read AND fully understand oil specification data sheets, which I've come to realize that the average person does NOT seem to understand at all.

Therefore, when someone asks an opinion about an oil or what they should run in their sled, I merely give them MY opinion, which I strive to base upon FACTS as well as real-world experiences, information and data.

I do NOT deliberately run my mouth, belittle, run-down, or "bash" on others, like so many of you consistantly do here in these forums and threads.

When people ask, I have only been stating the facts, and if you don't like them - well, I'm sorry. Take it up with your oil company and try checking your big fat ego at the door.

BTW, if the expense of oils didn't mean "a hill of beans" to most people, then they would NOT continue to bring up the topic. The fact that it is continually brought up is because people actually DO CARE about pissing away their money if then don't have to!

Some people actually DO WANT to save a buck where they can in this terrible economy. Not everyone has money to "burn" these days.

For the most part, the people that "don't care" (Including YOU) how much money they waste are the guys that have been convinced by Amsoil "smart-marketing" that their oil is worth TRIPLE the cost of other competitive oils on the market.
Well, guess what... we all acknowledge that is their choice, and quite frankly, nobody here is trying to "change" them. So please, let it rest already, would ya?

Besides, for the most part, Amsoil followers are NOT the ones that are asking about different oils. The people that are asking about alternatives are those that understand that there must be better alternatives to overpriced oils (which there are) and they totally reject the theory that spending a lot of money for a given product is always the best answer!

You see, all we keep hearing from you Amsoil guys is the same thing, over and over again... "Amsoil is the best. I don't care about what it costs. Neither should you. I run Amsoil and so should you! Come jump on the Amsoil bandwagon. It's my money, not yours."

Yeah, ok - but SO WHAT?! You offer NO proof, NO reasoning, NO logic. Just a lot of B.S. and running-down other people that don't agree with you.

Yeah, what a total pant-load.

P.S. If you don't like my long answers about this topic (or any other topic for that matter) then just stop reading them! I mean honestly, nobody is putting a gun to your head.
Evidently my responses are so good, that you guys can't seem to get enough of them! I guess that discussing oil for you kids is kinda like the Tiger "Cheetah" Woods story... it's just so darned interesting, you just can't bear to look away!

Well, there's your answer - in the longest version I could possibly come up with. Whoops! Did I go over 100 words? Well, tough SH*T. Learn to type faster and perhaps you won't have to be so jealous of the fact that I can type 10 times faster than you can.

Do everyone a favor, and quit instigating arguements that you won't win.

Do you not realize, that its actually the way YOU talk to people on this site that got YOUR thread pulled on this very subject? Why do you think the thread got pulled? Please just answer that question before you go into a 1000 word essay. Perhaps not sarcastically berating people in your long responses would be helpful in curbing the childish argurements regarding this topic. The last 3 words in the above quote are trying to instigate an argurement. It might not be your intention but itscomming across as really desperate on your part to try to convince others of your point of view. I dont think people have a problem with your facts regarding the oil, (i run nothing but citgo) But I think its the "in your face, im right ,your wrong" way you come across presenting it that rubs people the wrong way. Maybe thats not your intention but it comes across like you feel if people dont see things the way you do that they are idiots.

In the last quote you accused rankins of not reading and comprehending, accused him of having a big fat ego, you have told him to let it rest(even though you wont when others have told you to), called him a "pant load". And even went as far to brag that you can type faster than him. I don think rankins was "running you down" cause he doesnt agree with you. I think he was curious as to why you are so passionate about this topic? So please explain to me how you are NOT belittleing someone or instigating an arguement? Please answer those questions first before you go off on yet another rant. Also be careful how you respond because it will be YOUR comments that gets another thread pulled. I see that you just wanna get the word out and present the facts and thats great. Its cool that you have good expierence to share with us. Im just not sure we need it repeated over and over and be mocked as ignorant if a person doesnt agree.

[Skylar]

STD, watch the language. This thread is close to getting pulled also, state your opinion, and move on. No need to berate others.

[indy_500]

STD, watch the language. This thread is close to getting pulled also, state your opinion, and move on. No need to berate others.

haha lol, i created a thread and it turns into 2 guys arguing about oil :)

[olsmann]

haha lol, i created a thread and it turns into 2 guys arguing about oil :)

So what have you decided to run by the way? (just cleaned my valves with 1300 miles of poo gold and all i can tell you was "nasty!"

[troy]

At first use polaris gold oil got cost too much I switched over to used Citgo Snow@sea Synthetic blend for 5 years in My wife 2001 LE 800 and mine 2001 polaris XCR800. and no problems both sled have 8000 miles on them.
I buy my oil at Fleet Farm for $12 a gallon I used about 5 gallons a year.
I do clean the exhause valve once a year..
also I think citgo makes Yamaha lube. this come as suprise that citgo also make the oil for the Harley Davidson too.. check out the MSDS sheets.

[indy_500]

So what have you decided to run by the way? (just cleaned my valves with 1300 miles of poo gold and all i can tell you was "nasty!"

running polaris oil in the 700's because that's what has been run thru them. except for the xc sp but that had polaris so far for half it's life. sticking with arctic blue in my beater 99 indy 500. i can get polaris oil for $25 a pop. i was thinking of switching to sea and snow but didn't. i might still yet. who knows, haven't ridden either 700's but have put on 160 miles this year on the 500

[SuperTurboDiesel]

In the last quote you accused rankins of not reading and comprehending, accused him of having a big fat ego, you have told him to let it rest(even though you wont when others have told you to), called him a "pant load". And even went as far to brag that you can type faster than him. I don think rankins was "running you down" cause he doesnt agree with you. I think he was curious as to why you are so passionate about this topic? So please explain to me how you are NOT belittleing someone or instigating an arguement? Please answer those questions first before you go off on yet another rant. Also be careful how you respond because it will be YOUR comments that gets another thread pulled. I see that you just wanna get the word out and present the facts and thats great. Its cool that you have good expierence to share with us. Im just not sure we need it repeated over and over and be mocked as ignorant if a person doesnt agree.

olsmann,

Are you kidding? First of all, I didn't call HIM (rakins800) a "pant-load". I was calling the lack of "sufficient justification" from those that run Amsoil a "pant-load".
Perhaps it is YOU who needs to go back and re-read what I wrote?

Secondly, when a person makes a comment like "can you keep your answer under 100 words?" - That comment alone, IS an insult, and was definitely intended to BE an insult. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

I merely pointed out that I can type quickly, and that's often why my responses get lengthy very quickly. (Much as this response is also going to be.) My "dig" was; "is he jealous"? That was a responding "dig" for his original "dig" at me.

Third, I'm not instigating any arguements. These guys with their "one-liners" smart-arsed comments and deliberate "digs" that are directed squarely at ME are the ones that are instigating any arguements.
Fact is, most people can't seem take a "dig" in return, so why are earth are they dishing them out in the first place?

Unfortunately, there are way too many "whiners" on here that slam on others about oil. The vast majority of those people have not taken the time nor put forth any effort into any research into the topic to back their rude "one-liner" comments directed at me, for having a different opinon they they do.

So "olsmann", I hope I've cleared up any questions that you may have had.

To everyone: Please bear in mind, I've never directly insulted anyone for using Amsoil, Polaris oil, or any other brand of oil. No sir, not once. If you think I have, then you should probably work on your own reading comprehension. Seriously. (By the way, this is called "constructive criticism", not to be mistaken for an insult or instigation for any arguements.)

The following quote by "cih7250" is most appreciated, and also helps proves my point tenfold:


"**** Super T D I like reading your comments your one well informed guy,keep up the good work. I've run amsoil for years and after reading all this it have got me to start thinking of a differant brand of oil,I like saving money."

It appears that not everyone is completely closed minded. I wasn't even looking for this kind of response, but am glad that someone isn't so pig-headed to sit there and join in on the childish casting of insults my direction.

[SuperTurboDiesel]

STD, watch the language. This thread is close to getting pulled also, state your opinion, and move on. No need to berate others.


wow. ask a simple question.
what youre looking for is 'midol' or 'pamperin' in the medication section of the store.........


SUPER T
OK,I'll ask.
what's your beef with Amsoil?
or do you have a special conection with S&S?
there must be a story behind all this Amsoil bashing. even if you are 100% correct in your statements,it's just not normal to put this much effort into something. especialy something that really does'nt mean a hill of beans to most people-which brand of oil we throw our money away on.
just asking.
ps- can you keep the answer under 100 words?


Skylar,

Language? I hope you aren't referring to swearing. Aside from the word "sh*t", I'm pretty sure that there was not one "swear word" in my responses in this thread.

Also, how do you figure that I'm the one that is berating others... by pointing out truths, facts, and my personal life-experiences?

What exactly do you call the above ^^^ comments by rakins800? Courteous chat and playful banter?

I think not... It's just his way of being insulting & instigating an arguement (in a round-about way), and everyone knows it.

Perhaps he just missed out on my oil thread that you pulled earlier, in which MANY of the "members" on here all ganged up and continued to BASH as hard as they could on me until you got fed up and pulled it. I guess that here in your discussion boards, a person isn't allowed to defend himself, when others are slamming them. So it goes.

Regardless, I don't understand why I'M being considered the "bad guy" here, simply because I tend to be highly opinionated and knowlegeable about certain topics.

Fortunately, I'm not the only one that knows and understands that I'm not one of the ignorant ones who has to act like a smart-arse to those folks (like myself) that have actually been contributing worthwhile responses in this forum. I know there are lots of people that would stand up for me, once they get to know me better. Some already have.

[aesynthetics]

Amsoil, American made and they never compromise quality for cost. Become a preferred customer for $20 a year and buy it for $26.65/gal (4 gal case).

[SuperTurboDiesel]

Amsoil, American made and they never compromise quality for cost. Become a preferred customer for $20 a year and buy it for $26.65/4 gal case.

Hey aesynthetics,

Your above comment is simply NOT true. Looks like you misunderstood.
$26.99 would be PER GALLON in a 4 gallon case, and NOT $26.99/4 gal case!
(I just did the math using real-life Amsoil pricing.)

For those that would like to know where these numbers came from, see below...

That number ($26.99) takes into account the following formula:

(1) 4 gal case of Amsoil Interceptor at retail price = $143.95

$143.95 X 0.25 = $35.99 (25% discount is for being a "preferred customer") This is also the "dealer cost".

So, $143.95 - $35.99 = $107.96 for a case quantity of (4), 1 gallon jugs.

4 gallons of Amsoil = $107.96 (plus tax)

$107.96 / 4 = $26.99 per gallon

So, it's $26.99 PER GALLON. (PLUS $20.00 additional for the "preferred membership".)

Therefore, you have to add $5 bucks to each gallon to make up for the yearly membership fee.
So, that brings the cost per gallon up to $31.99 per gallon. Ugh, even worse, but granted, it's still better than Polaris dealer oil pricing!

Now granted, the amount of membership fee added per gallon would "drop" exponentially as you buy more oil. This is true. The more oil you buy, the more you "save", so to speak. (Of course most people try to buy what they need, and not go overboard, thereby limiting any real big "savings".)

Finally, are there any shipping / delivery costs? (Well of course there are, and I haven't even got into that.)

So, for basic comparison, Citgo's Sea & Snow oil is available for $11.79 per gallon. No extra "hidden charges".

Therefore, even if you could buy Amsoil at a true $26.99 per gallon (which you can't, in reality), it's still by far more expensive.
It's 2 1/3rd times more expensive than the Citgo oil, as a matter of fact.


Unfortunately, most of us in this world really don't care where our oil is "made", any more than we care where our vehicles are "made".
(Despite what people say, actions still continue to speak louder than words.)

In most people's final purchasing decision, everything always seems to come down to 2 main criteria:
#1.) Will the given product serve its purpose well?
and
#2.) Is the product cost-effective?

It's really the same reason that people shop at Wal-Mart, which promotes both American jobs AND the Chinese ecomomy. The average Joe in this country doesn't have the extra money to spend lavishly these days, so the majority buy what they can reasonably afford.

If the politicians hadn't pushed America into NAFTA and global economization, and if corporate America hadn't shifted all our jobs overseas to "survive", then the "average Joe" wouldn't be in the predicament where we are forced to get the most "bang for our buck" at every turn.

For well over DOUBLE the savings, many of us will continue to run the Citgo in our sleds this season, with no worries.

Mmmm, just think of all the extra refreshments, food, and gasoline that we can buy with all that extra money saved... Sweet.

[russholio]

I'm not debating any of the facts, or sticking up for one product over another. But compare apples to apples: Yes, Amsoil is far more expensive than Citgo. But Amsoil is full synthetic whereas Citgo is a synthetic blend. I'm not saying one does (or doesn't do) a better job than the other, but I think it's safe to say that most (if not all) synthetic oils are more expensive than synthetic blends (and mineral).

That being said....I do use Amsoil but wouldn't mind giving Citgo a try -- if it weren't so hard to find in my area.

[aesynthetics]

Look at the quotes. When you are a preferred customer and you buy $100 in products you more than paid for your membership compared to buying retail.

[aesynthetics]

Well said Russolio! You have to compare apples to apples.

[rakins800]

Look at the quotes. When you are a preferred customer and you buy $100 in products you more than paid for your membership compared to buying retail.

very true. I buy Amsoil for my sleds,truck,two cars,ATV,lawn tractor,snowblower,chain saw,and string trimmer. I also use it in my transmissions as well as diferentials and transfer casses. not to mention a 835 HP sprint car motor. I'm very happy with the product and its price.

[aesynthetics]

rakins 800, Glad to hear you like the products! I have had many people tell me that now that they have tried Amsoil they will never run anything else. There is nothing better than changing oil once a year/25000 miles in everyday vehicles and saving alot of money and having the peace of mind to go with it!

[SuperTurboDiesel]

I'm not debating any of the facts, or sticking up for one product over another. But compare apples to apples: Yes, Amsoil is far more expensive than Citgo. But Amsoil is full synthetic whereas Citgo is a synthetic blend. I'm not saying one does (or doesn't do) a better job than the other, but I think it's safe to say that most (if not all) synthetic oils are more expensive than synthetic blends (and mineral).

That being said....I do use Amsoil but wouldn't mind giving Citgo a try -- if it weren't so hard to find in my area.


Everyone is fully aware of that fact that the S&S is a synthetic blend and the Amsoil is straight synthetic. What is being compared is the fact that the Citgo is substancially cheaper, and it has PROVEN to perform just as well as the Amsoil, particularly in the real world applications.
Therefore, in those two aspects alone (Price AND Performance), it IS absolutely an apples to apples comparison.

Not to mention, "rakins800" we aren't talking about 4-stroke engine oil changes here either. We are talking about a consumable 2-stroke oil that needs to have the correct properties for lubrication as well as clean burning to keep the exhaust valves from coking up.

By the way, IMO, if you are crazy enough to leave ANY oil, synthetic or not, in your engine's crankcase for 25,000 miles, then you are insane.

With that said, I run straight synthetics in all of my autos and trucks. They always get changed every 7,500 to 10,000. Talk to any seasoned technician without an agenda for selling Amsoil products... 25,000 miles between oil changes is way too much, no matter what.

Whether talking about this "magical savings" from your "membership fee" or not, no matter how you look at it, Amsoil is still a severely overpriced product, retail or otherwise. More than anything, you are buying a "name".

[srt20]

How bout the walmart 2-stroke oil? Is that any good?

[aesynthetics]

STD, Obviously, you haven't seen the 409,000 mile oil change interval mack truck engine. 25k for Amsoil with Ea Filters is nothing special, and no I'm not insane. I have sent normal everyday vehicle oil samples in for oil analysis at 25,000 miles and the oil was suitable for continued use. The filter has to be changed at 25,000 mile intervals and usually not the oil. You might not know it, but Amsoil is actually formulated to suspend contaminants so they go through the filter and are caught. I have farmers that have put 1600 hrs on HDDQT and have oil analysis results saying the oil is good for continued use, they can't believe it.

Getting back to the 2 Stroke subject... Go to Amsoil.com and check out the logging company that tested Saber in half of the chain saws and the teardown results.

[SuperTurboDiesel]

How bout the walmart 2-stroke oil? Is that any good?


Probably in your Poulan chain saw - LOL.

[aesynthetics]

AMSOIL Saber Professional pre-mix two cycle oil is designed with AMSOIL synthetic base oils and premium additives. Saber is designed for lean mix ratios and has excellent lubricity and cleanliness to control friction and help prevent wear, plug fouling, and ring sticking.

Saber Professional is recommended to be mixed at a 100:1 ratio even when the application calls for 50:1. The quality base oils resist consumption and evaporation better than conventional oils. The combination of premium base oils and additvives, AMSOIL Saber Professional delivers maximum protection and performance in small engine applications, even at 100:1.

AMSOIL 2-cycle oils have been providing performance and protection since 1973. There are still some people who struggle with using an oil at a 100:1 ratio.AMSOIL synthetic provided a logging company with six Stihl MS 440 chainsaws to demonstrate the superiority of this oil. Three were used at 50:1 with conventional 2 cycle oil and the other three used the AMSOIL Saber. There were all used as normal for a total of 200 hours, which is a severe service application.

The engines were then tore down to determine how they performed. The chainsaws using the Saber Professional had fewer deposits, less wear and were generally cleaner. The chainsaws using the Saber also used an average of 8% less fuel.

AMSOIL Saber Professional is an excellent replacement 2 cycle oil to be used safely at a 100:1 ratio where 50:1 is recommended by the manufacturer. It provides excellent protection while saving money by using less oil and fuel.


When they did their lab testing, they ran engines at 200:1 just to see if the oil would protect at that ratio. Take it for what you will.

[SuperTurboDiesel]

STD, Obviously, you haven't seen the 409,000 mile oil change interval mack truck engine. 25k for Amsoil with Ea Filters is nothing special, and no I'm not insane. I have sent normal everyday vehicle oil samples in for oil analysis at 25,000 miles and the oil was suitable for continued use. The filter has to be changed at 25,000 mile intervals and usually not the oil. You might not know it, but Amsoil is actually formulated to suspend contaminants so they go through the filter and are caught. I have farmers that have put 1600 hrs on HDDQT and have oil analysis results saying the oil is good for continued use, they can't believe it.

Getting back to the 2 Stroke subject... Go to Amsoil.com and check out the logging company that tested Sabre in half of the chain saws and the teardown results.



Huh, didn't know we were talking about "over the road" semi-trucks.

BTW, if it were such a great idea, then the majority of the trucking industry would have already embraced this "great" idea and be just changing their filters and simply adding make up oil instead of doing regular services on their fleets. I used to work in a diesel truck fleet. Rarely did a truck go past 15,000 miles without servicing. I do know we were running some with synthetics up to 30,000 miles on the longer haul rigs.
I personally don't care what oil you run, or what stories you want to believe. I don't believe everything I read, that's for sure.

If you would have READ the Amsoil recommendations, they DO NOT recommend the use of the super-lean "Sabre" oil in any 2-stroke PREMIX snowmobile engines. Additionally, nobody cares about what you want to run in your chain saws. We're talking about sleds here.

Anyhow, as we've all established in these numerous threads, you go right ahead and do what you want, and the rest of us will do what we want.

I'm pretty sure that this thread was originally started pertaining to and referring to talking predominately about 2-stroke variable exhaust valve snowmobile engines, and what oils work best for them. Both in keeping the exhaust valves clean at a cost-effective price as well. Pretty sure that we've established that.

Try to stay on topic would ya?

[jim_golding]

S.T.D.
I currently run S&S in all of my sleds one of which has power valves so I do believe that it is good oil for two strokes. However I am interested in the tests and data you mention in your earlier posts. Do you have any analysis which shows the properties of the oil compared to other oils? I think everyone would find it interesting however it may add to more discussion since some of the parameters/properites and their results will be different between the oils.

I find this discussion very interesting since I am a engineer responsible for 4 EMD diesels rated at 3500HP at a nuclear power plant which involves reviewing oil analysis and fuel oil analysis to ensure the diesels will be able to start and load with 10 seconds of a start signal.

[SuperTurboDiesel]

Dear Jim_Golding,

Citgo Sea & Snow MSDS Sheets here:

http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/621612001.pdf


Citgo Supergard Sea & Snow Synthetic-Blend 2-stroke oil Product Information Sheets here:

http://www.docs.citgo.com/msds_pi/10008.pdf


Citgo also makes Mystik brand oils.

Mystik JT-4 Product Information Sheets here:

http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20075.pdf


Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 0W-40 MSDS Sheets here:

http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/663081002.pdf



Amsoil Interceptor Synthetic 2-cycle oil Product Information Sheet here:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ait.aspx


Amsoil Interceptor MSDS Sheets here:

http://www.amsoil.com/msds/ait.pdf


By the way, if you want a 100% TRUE apples to apples, synthetic base stock to synthetic base stock oil comparision, COMPARE the Mystik JT-4 to Amsoil Interceptor. They would be considered near "equals", and I do admit, the Interceptor does appear to be a better oil.

But again, back to price. Note that there is a mere $2.00/gallon difference between the Mystik and Amsoil synthetic (assuming that you are an Amsoil "preferred customer", and have paid the yearly membership "fee".) Otherwise there is a much more substancial $11.41 difference per gallon. (UGH.)

Mystik JT-4 Synthetic = $24.99/gallon
Amsoil Interceptor Synthetic = $26.99/gallon (plus $20/year preferred fee already pre-paid), otherwise it's $36.40/gallon

Keep in mind, the Citgo S&S is a synthetic-blend, and costs $11.79/gallon.


As for any direct physical comparison analysis, no I do not have access to any of that.

More statistical data information you may want is available via the various websites, similar to what the links above will provide. Additional data or testing may be acquired by writing the various companies and inquiring, however due to proprietary information, you may not be able to acquire certain data that you may be seeking.

Look, despite the "numbers", the primary reason (in simplest form) that I'm a firm believer on running the Citgo S&S is because it performs just as well in 2-stroke snowmobiles in the real world, as the "premium synthetics" out there do, but for a fraction of the cost.
Anyone who has run it, knows it to be a truth.

The fact is, we aren't running tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands or multi-million dollar machines here. Is Amsoil (Interceptor for example) a better oil than S & S? Well, in some ways, yes, and take note that I have never disputed that arguement.

However, what people need to realize and accept is that we are talking about snowmobiles. Powersports toys, that on average, have a life expectancy similar to an automobile. The facts are that the majority of snowmobiles are "disposed of" or at minimum, "retired from regular use" within a 10 years timeframe, and 10,000 miles on average. Granted, in some areas of the snow belt they see many more miles, but in other areas, it's not uncommon to find sleds with far, far fewer miles logged on them.

We all want to enjoy our snowmobiles for as long as we can. We want them to run as reliably as possible, and we want to fuel them as cheaply as we can. Until the day comes, when we've decided that we are "sick of them" and we want something "new & improved". After all, it's the American way!

Therefore, sometimes "the best practical oil to do the job" may not actually be "the very best scientific oil".

I've said it before, and I'll say it again... Sea & Snow - they way to go, for average Joe!