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dcsnomo
12-07-2009, 03:53 PM
Hey y'all! I have a 1998 Polaris 600 XLT SP that starts reluctantly. All stock, carbs are Mikuni vm38AL, cleaned and synched, new flanges. Idles great, runs great. It just doesn't like to start, particularly after a break in the ride. I just turned the mixture screws out 1/2 turn to try to resolve, can't find results until some snow. Any other ideas or tips? Are these triples just hard starting?
Thanks!
Snow tonight!

oldguy
12-07-2009, 05:40 PM
The triples are definitely finicky. They flood real easily and had problems with the needle and seats in the carbs. If you choke the sled, pull it over with one hand and be prepared to slam the choke off with the other as soon as it fires. If it floods, be prepared to pull it over forever until it starts again.

jimfsr
12-07-2009, 06:39 PM
May help to hold it wide open when hot starting. Obviously let go once it cleans out, and before it trys to take off. The triples seemed to like the extra air flow at start up.

xcsp
12-07-2009, 07:39 PM
Oldguy is right, XLT's were known for a problem with the needle & seats. A friend of mine had a '95 that had the problem as you state.

He finally went and had them replaced and all was good!

dcsnomo
12-08-2009, 06:26 PM
Thanks! I think I will replace the needles and seats, it's exactly as you describe it.

racerx
12-08-2009, 06:38 PM
I had a 96 XLT which was hard starting hot or cold for many years. I completely cleaned the carbs and synced them exactly and it became one of my easier starting sleds even to the point I did not have to use the choke sometimes even when cold. I did find one carb that the slide bore went bad and started breaking the main jet needle but that was b4 I went thru everything. I believe I changed the needle/seat as others have mentioned.

It is possible to get these triples to start easier, I believe the factory calibration were not that great and only worsened with time. Dial that all in to spec and you should be good to go.

cmajor
12-09-2009, 12:05 PM
My '96 XLT was a bear to start after sitting during breaks in riding. I figured out the needle valves/seats were bad and leaking fuel to the case. My short term fix was to carry a 10mm socket w/ me to empty the case via 3 drain plugs prior to starting. A real pain on the trail.

My solution was to replace the needle valves/seats and that made all the difference in the world.

Although unrelated, I'll mention that I re-jetted to the correct altitude/temp I ride in and must say that the difference is night and day wrt plugs fouling. I guess this could also be a contributor to hard starting if the plugs are fouled, but not as significant as flooding due to leaking needle valves/seats.

As previously mentioned, my XLT is also very particular in the way likes to be started. Do it right and it's quick and easy. Do it wrong and you're in for some pulling.

Cold start: DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Key on. Kill switch to run. Full choke. Pull until it fires. Choke off. Pull until it starts. Use the choke to keep it running (flip choke to full and off just that fast) when it wants to die. DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Let it warm up and use choke to keep running if necessary. Generally this takes TWO pulls - honestly.

Warm start: DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Key on. Kill switch to run. Choke off. Pull until it fires. Generally one pull. On rare occassions, I find it necessary to use the throttle, but I'll try w/ out first.

Good luck.

SuperTurboDiesel
12-09-2009, 12:39 PM
Yeah, the general consensus is the needle and seat problem.

I totally agree.

I had a 1996 XCR (same motor as the XLT) and it had the same basic problem that you described. Put 3 new needles and seats in the carbs and problem solved. It was a well know problem with those sleds of that vintage.

ALSO, I'm not sure where you live or ride, but I'd suggest changing your main jets two sizes leaner - assuming that you are still running the factory exhaust system and it has not been "piped".

All Polaris triples were way overfueled from the factory (to help prevent warranty claims) and most of them desperately needed leaning out. To and extent, it does depend on where you live (how high above sea level that your elevation is). I live "near sea level" (Upstate NY) and I went two sizes leaner on my main jets at the same time that I replaced the bad needles & seats.

My sled literally "awoke" and OH BOY, what a difference! Since day one, it had never run so good! Not to mention, fuel economy improved as well as throttle response and an overall power increase! It was definitely worth doing, and its actually a LOT cheaper to buy new main jets than it is to buy the needle and seats that you definitely need.

Additionally... you said you messed with some stuff. Ugh. Make sure you have your pilot jet (air screw) set correctly to the factory spec and make sure that you have the "e"-clip in the correct factory slot in each carbs throttle piston valve needle jet. They are also critical settings to make your sled run correctly. If I had my OEM Service Manual handy, I could give you the actual specs right now, but I don't... it's at my shop. If you can't get your Polaris dealer to tell you, then let me know and I will help you.

Off the top of my head, for a baseline, your "e" clip should be in the middle slot, and the pilot jet should set at around 1 to 1.5 turns out from seated.

Synchronizing the 3 carbs is key to a long life of your motor as well as good performance from it. Most people screw them up pretty badly once they start "messing" with their carburators. Not cool, and triples can be a royal pain to tune if you don't know what you are doing or have never learned. If you are not sure how to do it, I'd advise taking it to your dealer and having them do it, as it will be money WELL SPENT.

You really need to make a manometer to do a synchronization properly. Making a manometer is pretty easy and can be done quite inexpensively. You also can 1/2-assed do a synchronization by doing some measuring and adjusting of the throttle valves by using drill bits for the specs. It's definitely not as accurate, but they actually describe how to do it in the Polaris OEM Service Manual. It's kind of a pain, but it can be done. It's not difficult, but a little time consuming.

Using the manometer synchronization method is much easier and quicker if your carbs have the "capped" vacuum ports on the sides.

If not, in addition to making a manometer (easy to do) then you will need carb "plugs" that go over each carburator intake venturi to do the synchronization. That is yet another reason why I say that you may want to just take it to your dealer. Plus, that way if your sled's motor performance sucks or your motor blows up, you can pin it on them!

You can reach me at: superturbodiesel2@yahoo.com

SuperTurboDiesel
12-09-2009, 12:45 PM
My '96 XLT was a bear to start after sitting during breaks in riding. I figured out the needle valves/seats were bad and leaking fuel to the case. My short term fix was to carry a 10mm socket w/ me to empty the case via 3 drain plugs prior to starting. A real pain on the trail.

My solution was to replace the needle valves/seats and that made all the difference in the world.

Although unrelated, I'll mention that I re-jetted to the correct altitude/temp I ride in and must say that the difference is night and day wrt plugs fouling. I guess this could also be a contributor to hard starting if the plugs are fouled, but not as significant as flooding due to leaking needle valves/seats.

As previously mentioned, my XLT is also very particular in the way likes to be started. Do it right and it's quick and easy. Do it wrong and you're in for some pulling.

Cold start: DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Key on. Kill switch to run. Full choke. Pull until it fires. Choke off. Pull until it starts. Use the choke to keep it running (flip choke to full and off just that fast) when it wants to die. DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Let it warm up and use choke to keep running if necessary. Generally this takes TWO pulls - honestly.

Warm start: DO NOT TOUCH THROTTLE. Key on. Kill switch to run. Choke off. Pull until it fires. Generally one pull. On rare occassions, I find it necessary to use the throttle, but I'll try w/ out first.

Good luck.


cmajor,

Heh, it appears that we had the exact same problem. It also appears that I basically repeated the same thing that you talked about in the 1st 1/2 of my response. Whoops, LOL!

One thing is for sure, if "dcsnomo" takes our advice, he will LOVE the outcome of how well his sled will start, run, and perform.

Peace out!

Polariscatgrabber11
12-10-2009, 10:22 AM
I know the drill bit for space size is not the best way to do this but I dont TRUST ANY of my dealers around here and I dont have the money to take it to them, what would be the BEST size to start out with? .... I will go out in the garage a little later and reply back to what sizes I got back but I just cant get the damn thing to start or run like it's suppose to. I took my needles and seats apart and cleaned them with some emery cloth and got it to stop leakin fuel into the crankcase and got it to start but it just wont idle when its warm and Starts HARD when it cold, after its warmed up I dont even have to pull the cord all the way and it fires RIGHT up! and suggestions on the drill bit size would be great! the way I look at it is the sleds old and Im planning on winning the lottery soon so "good enough" will work 4 now! thanks!

bigred_tr
12-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Try pop'n the hood when you stop and shut off the gas while relax'n...then before ya start again turn on the gas and see if that will help...

Had a bud with a Triple and this worked for him.

fusion
12-10-2009, 05:45 PM
I had a 95 XLT bought brand new and the thing started all the time on 2nd or 3rd pull. Of course you have to do the maintenance on them, and have the carbs set and sync'd once a year, or at least every other year. If running reformulated gas and the carb bowls aren't drained, that stuff can gum up the bowls and floats too. I'd just take it apart if you have the ability, clean it up and put new needles in it. Otherwise, bite the bullet and take it in to a dealer. That was all around one of the best running sleds I ever had.

Polariscatgrabber11
12-10-2009, 07:21 PM
I just went out there I dident pull the air box apart to get into the carbs to check anything out yet but I COULD NOT get it started all kinds of firing goin on...Probably gonna sell this HEADACHE! Ive got 2 old yamaha Enticers 1 is a 300 the other is a 250 havent been started in 4 years at the begining of the last month and 3 pulls on the 250 and 5 pulls on the 300 and the both run like champs! I HATE YAMAHA'S but these 2 are great...damn 3 cylinder polaris just aint havin it. 3 cylinders 3x the porblems this is my 2nd XLT and both of them were problems I should have never sold the edge.........:\

big_bill
12-10-2009, 07:46 PM
I had a 96 xlt and have a 99 xlt, both had the fuji triple. They both had/have the same problem you mentioned. On both machines, I found if I shut the gas off after riding, turned it back on, they would start right up. When I fogot/forget to turn gas off, they would flood. Easy solution, worked/works for me!

Polariscatgrabber11
12-10-2009, 09:29 PM
well, I was just out in the barn and it seems like an 1/8th" drill bit fits pretty good I found one of the three the bit was a little looser on, I adjusted it down it started right up, and idled fine, so I took it around the yard, and its REALLY doggy on bottom end, doesent take off till probably 15 mph and its just barely running until then?!!.... any I dea's on what this might be?...I think Im gonna buy some new needles and seats anyway, I took the three bolts out in the bottom of the case and there was a little bit that came out so those OBVIOUSLY are NOT sealing. time for some more money!

booondocker
12-11-2009, 09:17 AM
How many miles on that motor? This could also be low compression in the cylinders. I have never owned one of these triples, but I have a friend that has two and he always puts a match stick in between the flipper and handlebar to keep the throttle cracked open when he starts his....seems to work for him, particularly when it is warmed up.

Polariscatgrabber11
12-11-2009, 10:07 AM
I pull 120psi on all 3 cylinders not sure on the mileage on the motor thats in there because its not the original but I have good compression I just dont think its tuned right, something aint right and its Pi**** me off!!

SuperTurboDiesel
12-11-2009, 07:27 PM
I pull 120psi on all 3 cylinders not sure on the mileage on the motor thats in there because its not the original but I have good compression I just dont think its tuned right, something aint right and its Pi**** me off!!

The compression in your cylinders is adequate. As long as each of the 3 cylinders are close to being the same psi's, you are fine there.

If I were a bettin' man, I'd say you don't have the chokes adjusted properly. There is a proper procedure for doing it. It's not as "easy" as you might think, though it's not that difficult either. Also, you need to make sure that your pilot jets (idle air screws) are adjusted properly, and that your throttle gaps are adjusted properly. (You can only do the throttle gap adjustments by removing the airbox.) There are TWO throttle gap adjustments. One is the cable pull adjustment, and the other is the initial baseline for the engine idle setting. Yes, both of these can be generically done with the right size drill bits.

To me, it sounds like you are like most guys, and have NO idea how to properly adjust carburetors on a triple. Now, don't get all upset, you are in the majority!

Besides, that's why mechanics can make a living, because of those out there that don't know or can't do it themselves. What you really need is a manual, so you can TEACH yourself how to do it. Seriously, that's how I learned! Nobody "taught me" personally. And, I'm (not to toot my own horn, but...) pretty darned good at tuning those triples now! Lots of practice, followed with some trial and error, and a LOT of PATIENCE! When you get angry, just walk away and come back later. Sometimes even the next day is necessary. Trying to do stuff when you are aggravated usually just leads to more problems, and more aggravation.

By the way... You CANNOT get away with "cleaning" or sanding the needles & seats on these carburetors! They will still leak, and possibly worse! You really do have to go and buy 3 brand new needle & seat kits and and install them in each carburetor to solve the problems. The new needles will have "viton" rubber tips on them. NEVER sand those!

Yes I know, that sucks. Yes, it's pricey (around $25 bucks per carb last time I did it, many years ago). Yes, you have to take the airbox out. Yes, you have to remove each carburetor, remove each carb bowl, and change EACH needle and seat. Doing one carb at a time would be wise, and I like to remove all three, starting from the Clutch (aka PTO) side first, and then do the Flywheel side (aka MAG) side first and work back towards the clutch side.

Another thing that can be wrong with your sled if it won't idle is that the crankshaft seals could be leaking. The PTO side one is pretty easy to check, but the MAG side is much harder to check, as you will have to figure out a way to get the motor running without the recoil on. Usually you can just wrap a rope around the flywheel recoil cage extension to start the motor up when the recoil assy has been removed. With the engine running, spray the seals with carburetor cleaner or better yet, ether (starting fluid) near the seals. If the engine rpm's go up, then you have a bad seal. If there is no change, that is good, and the seal is not leaking.

(Keep a fire extinguisher around in case you get sloppy and catch things on fire accidentally. This goes for any kind of work around flammable stuff.)

Look unfortunately, owning a snowmobile isn't for people without money. If you are "broke" and can't afford to get your sled fixed then either get a JOB to pay for it or sell your sled and take up a cheaper hobby. Just because you managed to buy an old sled for only $700 bucks today, that once cost $7,000 when it was new, doesn't mean that you will be able to afford to repair it when it needs work. And believe me, if you bought it really cheap, then it will need work! It's kind of like why a guy that makes only $20 grand a year has no business owning a Corvette. I don't care if it's a 20 or 30 year old clunker of a 'vette, it's still too danged expensive for an average Joe to have. Anyhow, I've managed to get off topic.

Unfortunately, carburator repairs and tuning is NOT for the inexperienced, and NOT for someone that thinks he can do it all in a 1/2 hour.
It takes TIME and PATIENCE and some understanding of what the heck you are doing. If you don't know, then buy a manual and TEACH yourself.
If you refuse to do that, then take it to a dealer and pay them to do it, and be over it.

I cannot afford to continue to waste MY time trying to teach people how to fix their sleds, unless you guys are going to start paying me for my time! Seriously! Most shops get $60 bucks an hour at a shop, which these days is the going rate here. I personally get $15/hour for advice and tips, beyond the realm of "free" advice that I literally "give away" here in these forums.

I can probably scan and e-mail you a ton of good info about how to tune your sled's carbs as well as the specs and info from my Factory Polaris Service Manual, which cost me well over $100, several years ago. The manual covers the vast majority of the triple sleds.
However, I'm not supplying the information for free, because it's a HUGE hassle and time eater.

Let me know if you are interested in the information, and then maybe we can work something out. Send me a PM if interested and we'll go from there.

Thanks.

Polariscatgrabber11
12-13-2009, 07:50 PM
well I appreciate all the good tips and advice but I dont think you should be in my business and trying to tell me what to do "DAD"!....for your info though I have money but I choose to spend on another "HOBBY" of mine the sled comes last and I am sorry that you have wasted so MUCH of your valuable time on here preaching to me! I asked for help on my sled and you helped very well there but then you just kept running your mouth! if everyone who couldent afford there sleds all the time sold them there would 1 person on the trail, YOU! I appreciate the help, sorry for my Inconvenience. and I will pass on the "PAYING" you for your booked pages I do have access to a book I just have to get to them! BYE BYE HAVE A DAY!

fusion
12-13-2009, 09:41 PM
Hello:
I think you are a bit out of line talking to him like that. He was only trying to help, but you seem to be quite angry with your lack of success in fixing the problem and he's frustrated reading it. The advice he gives is quite good. Personally, I think you are nuts with no experience trying to set and sync these triple carbs and chokes. Take the darn thing to a dealer if you care about the sled and have it done right. Get to know a dealer so you can trust the work they do. If you can't afford to have the dealer do it, let the sled sit until you can, and don't bother with it.

Polariscatgrabber11
12-14-2009, 10:10 AM
I understand I may be a bit out of line but all I wanted was some good tips on where to start wich he gave me and I appreciate that as I have already said a few times. and let me ask you something if I wanted to learn how to do this stuff WHY?...would I take it to a dealer?.... I work on all my own stuff I may not be the best at knowing where to start with the sleds all the time but I have never not been able to figure it out and just GAVE up! experience is valuable the same way he learned is the same way I wanna learn I just needed someone to point me in the right direction (clutch or carbs?) wiich he has done. if any of you knew me I can pretty much figure anything mechanically out. and when he sits there and tells me If I dont have enough money to fix it,SELL IT! -that was out of line. Im young and I have done a pretty good job figuring things out in my life since I was 16, I own my own house a new car a newer truck I have 3 sleds 2 racecars(other hobby) a wife and 2 kids and Im 21, so I dont need someone giving me a lecture but the help was great! end of conversation on this crap I dont get on here to argue Im on here to see and read about other people's rides and give advice where I can. Hope everyone has a great season of riding!

cmajor
12-14-2009, 12:56 PM
dcsnomo:

www.hiperf.com for needle valves and seats (~$20.00 each). Spend the extra $ and go for Viton tipped as recommended. Also, main jets for ~$3 each.

lots of information available for rebuilding Mikuni carbs:

http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/vmmanual.pdf

http://www.ripperd.com/ftp/admins/carb_rebuild/

http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=332661

Good luck.

6mile
12-14-2009, 01:13 PM
I have a friend that that had a 97 XLT SP and it was the same way. After the first season he had that machine, we discovered what XLT SP really means. Xtra Large Toilet Start Pulling.

You have to do yearly maintenance on the carbs to get them to start easy and this also includes a proper Sync. After setting up the carbs properly it was no harder to start than any other carbed sled. The only problem is that it has to be done every year.

He finally switched to an EFI sled after a three seasons and has never looked back, I am glad, as I do not have to help him start that POS any more.

snoeatr
12-14-2009, 01:31 PM
well, I was just out in the barn and it seems like an 1/8th" drill bit fits pretty good I found one of the three the bit was a little looser on, I adjusted it down it started right up, and idled fine, so I took it around the yard, and its REALLY doggy on bottom end, doesent take off till probably 15 mph and its just barely running until then?!!.... any I dea's on what this might be?...I think Im gonna buy some new needles and seats anyway, I took the three bolts out in the bottom of the case and there was a little bit that came out so those OBVIOUSLY are NOT sealing. time for some more money!

With that said it sounds like a one or more of the chokes is hanging up. There could be crud in the bore where the plungers move up and down or a cable hanging up. This happens a lot. Sounds like the needle and seats also need replacing as some of the previous posts recommend. If the sled fires right up when cold, but then starts to run bad as it warms up, then I would bet a choke issue. I had a triple that had this problem all the time and just had it happen last season to my wife's 500.

SuperTurboDiesel
12-14-2009, 01:37 PM
Hello:
I think you are a bit out of line talking to him like that. He was only trying to help, but you seem to be quite angry with your lack of success in fixing the problem and he's frustrated reading it. The advice he gives is quite good. Personally, I think you are nuts with no experience trying to set and sync these triple carbs and chokes. Take the darn thing to a dealer if you care about the sled and have it done right. Get to know a dealer so you can trust the work they do. If you can't afford to have the dealer do it, let the sled sit until you can, and don't bother with it.

Fusion,

Thanks for backing me up. Glad I'm not the only one on here that gets a little aggravated by the continuous flow of "bellyaching" from guys that are too immature to accept a little constructive criticism along with a ton of invaluable "free" technical advice.

My prior responses were not geared to be solely for him alone, but meant to be information geared towards everyone on here that expects other people to "solve" all of their sled's issues via the internet.
I think perhaps what I was saying was taken a little too personally by Polariscatgrabber11. I realize that I can be a little harsh with words, but that's just the way I am. For that, I apologize.

I guess what I was implying was that there are many folks out there that expect other people should "solve" all their probems for free. They're unwilling to pay for the knowledge, skills, and wisdom that others (such as a dealership/repair shop, etc) can provide them.
Look, that's called "freeloading", and nobody likes to deal with freeloaders.

Unfortunately, nothing's "free" in this world, that's life. We all have bills to pay.

About Polariscatgrabber11's comments about having a wife & kids, owning cars, trucks, a house, etc... blah, blah, blah. Yeah, so what? I also own a LOT of vehicles, I too have a job, I too have a lot of other responsibilities and then some.
What does that have to do with anything that we were discussing?
Absolutley nothing.

Perhaps, he was just trying to impress us? What he doesn't realize is that he's only impressing himself, in an attempt to make up for the fact that he has no idea how to fix his sled.
After all, he started this thread in the first place, searching for free advice and information, looking for other people to do all the "thinking and diagnosing" for him, since he is unable to do it himself.
That's fine I guess, because there are lots of guys out there (like myself) that enjoy helping out others when they can. But as the saying goes... "Hey, don't bite the hand that feeds ya!"

I guess one of the final points that I was trying to make in my earlier response was that for a small sum of money, I was willing to go the extra mile to help this kid out.
I was willing to copy a whole bunch of very pertinent MODEL SPECIFIC INFORMATION (that he really, really needs to fix his sled correctly) out of my OEM Service Manual and send it to him.
Oh well, guess it's his loss.

Anyhow, perhaps the information that I posted will be useful to other people that read it, and they will not be so ungrateful nor nasty with their responses.

SuperTurboDiesel
12-14-2009, 01:55 PM
I have a friend that that had a 97 XLT SP and it was the same way. After the first season he had that machine, we discovered what XLT SP really means. Xtra Large Toilet Start Pulling.

You have to do yearly maintenance on the carbs to get them to start easy and this also includes a proper Sync. After setting up the carbs properly it was no harder to start than any other carbed sled. The only problem is that it has to be done every year.

He finally switched to an EFI sled after a three seasons and has never looked back, I am glad, as I do not have to help him start that POS any more.


6mile,

LOL - that's funny. My family and I have collectively all owned a dozen (or more) Polaris triples over the years. We currently still have (3) XLT's and (1) XCR left in our "fleet" of toys. All of them start within 3 to 4 pulls when cold, and 1 or 2 pulls at the most when warm. Heck, I have the XCR dialed in so good that it starts with 1/2 of a pull when warm!

All you have to do is set the carbs up PROPERLY once, and you won't have any problems year after year. Sounds to me like you boys never got 'em working quite right in the first place.

Furthermore, putting some fuel stabilizer in your sled before putting it away for the summer months is perfectly adequate for summer storage. Flip the choke up and start up your sled a handful of times over the summer for good measure. Come winter time, the sled will fire right up, just as good as any other sled. There's absolutely no need to be tearing into the carbs every year, unless something has been done incorrectly.

For starters, did you ever make sure the chokes were working properly and adjusted correctly on his sled? Did you ever replace all 3 of the needles and seats in the carbs with the updated "viton" tipped needles, that were needed to make those sleds start and run correctly?

Slam on the triples all you want, they were and still are, great sleds.

BTW, I know plenty of people that have had a heckuva lot more problems with EFI sleds than the carbureted ones. And with EFI comes a lot higher repair bills too!

6mile
12-14-2009, 04:17 PM
STD, (I like that acronym) LOL

The last year or two this guy had it I was able to get it to start pretty easy. 3 Pulls max, if one was paying attention to the machine. My buddy that owned the sled some times would go brain dead and do thing like leave the choke on for to many pulls, etc. finally he got frustrated with it and traded it in on a 800ZR EFI.

I am not saying that it was a bad sled, just not the right sled for this guy. I would rather not go into what the dealer did to this machine the first time it was brought in for carb adjustment/repair. Let's just say that there are not supposed to be extra parts when you put carbs back together.

snow_monkey
12-14-2009, 04:44 PM
I had the same sled and this was a common problem. There were claims such as the needle and seat, others told me many people with these units turn off the fuel seems to help.

SuperTurboDiesel
12-14-2009, 05:06 PM
I had the same sled and this was a common problem. There were claims such as the needle and seat, others told me many people with these units turn off the fuel seems to help.

snow_monkey...
Go read this thread from the beginning. I did my best to explain the issue pretty good.

Bottom line is this... turning off the gas was a "patch-fix" for not replacing the needles and seats. The problem was that Polaris (Mikuni, actually) had a run of defective needles and seats in MANY of the Polaris triples, and were apparently particularly a problem in 1996 -1997 year models, however the problem really was more widespread than just those years alone.

The needles would let the fuel "bleed" into the cylinders, thereby flooding the cylinder and causing hard starting problems. On sleds that sat a long time, with the "gas left on", it was not uncommon for the fuel tank to slowly empty itself into the engine's crankcase, thereby causing even more problems.

I have acutally seen first hand some sleds that acutally "hydro-locked" with too much raw liquid fuel pooling up in the cylinders. I've also watched guys literally "blow" the crankcase seals right out of their sleds from cranking and cranking until the fuel in the crankcase accidentally ignited from a backfire. Yeah crazy, but true.

At any rate, replacing the needles and seats with the "viton" rubber tipped needles entirely cured the problem. Many guys out of habit still shut their gas off anyhow. With the theory, "you can never be too careful". Can't say I blame them. I don't bother, I'm confident in the repairs that I made years ago in all of our triples (still have 4 of them), and our sleds have all been fine since.

;-)

SuperTurboDiesel
12-14-2009, 05:18 PM
STD, (I like that acronym) LOL

The last year or two this guy had it I was able to get it to start pretty easy. 3 Pulls max, if one was paying attention to the machine. My buddy that owned the sled some times would go brain dead and do thing like leave the choke on for to many pulls, etc. finally he got frustrated with it and traded it in on a 800ZR EFI.

I am not saying that it was a bad sled, just not the right sled for this guy. I would rather not go into what the dealer did to this machine the first time it was brought in for carb adjustment/repair. Let's just say that there are not supposed to be extra parts when you put carbs back together.


LOL, yeah the acronym was a "side-bonus". I actually didn't even realize it until well after I started using that screen name regularly. LOL

It's funny how we forget to start our sleds sometimes after a few drinks of "liquid-courage". Been there. LOL

I found that if my sled didn't start by the 4th pull, I probably had it flooded. Sometimes you could get away with just shutting the choke off, and holding the throttle wide open, and pulling your arm off.

But most of the time, once flooded, the tedious task of pulling the plugs out, pulling the sled over with the throttle wide open to dry her back out was a necessity. Then, sticking the plugs back in and starting the "correct" starting procedure over always seemed to do the trick. (On more rare occassions, I had to actually put in a new plug or 2.)

The key was to always start the sled like it was warm, FIRST. No choke.

If it didn't start after 3 or 4 pulls, then you gave it full choke, NO throttle.

Pull a few times, and she'd fire right off.

Leave the choke on for 3 to 15 seconds. Still, NOT touching the throttle.

Then, hit the throttle down to 1/2 choke and then continue to let her idle. Sometimes a little blip of the throttle, sometimes not.

Triples took a little time to build heat and fire well. Too many people are impatient and liked to just get on 'em and hammer on them. Caused many a "cold-siezure" or blown piston from pushing it too hard, too soon.

I think a lot of the starting problems that occur with sleds happen due to the fact that we are all so "brain-dead" from starting our fuel-injected automobiles on a daily basis, we forget how carburation works.

Oh well, live and learn I guess!

michaeladams
12-14-2009, 05:36 PM
boy,this guy must be a demacrap

SuperTurboDiesel
12-14-2009, 06:41 PM
boy,this guy must be a demacrap


Nope, Republican... but thanks for asking.

Glad it's ok for you to sling around insults.

Seriously, grow up.

snow_monkey
12-16-2009, 05:16 PM
I hear ya. The previous owner on my triple had the needle and seats changed a number of times and finally gave up. He told me when I purchased it they were working on a fix for the problem and thats right on it was a 97.