WI Senate Bill SB-406

[xcsp]

Maybe some have seen this, but just putting it out here in case you have not:


AWSC - Association of Wisconsin Snowmobile Clubs, Inc.

529 Trail Side Drive, Suite 100 – DeForest, WI 53532
Phone: 800.232.4108 / 608.846.5530 /Fax: 608.846.5534
Web: www.awsc.org • E-mail: awsc@awsc.org






MEMORANDUM


TO: Executive Board Members, Past Presidents, AWSC Directors and Representatives

FROM: Bill Schumann, AWSC President

DATE: December 30, 2009

RE: Senate Hearing on SB-406 (CAP/STEP Bill)


At this time, it is likely a hearing on Senate Bill 406 will take place in Madison on Thursday, January 14th, 2010 at 10:00 a.m. We are extremely grateful to Sen. Holperin for his support of this measure and for his efforts to schedule the hearing before the Senate Transportation, Tourism, Forestry and Natural Resources.

Typically, the AWSC takes great strides to increase member participation and attendance at legislative hearings. In this case, however, we are taking a different and more respectful approach given that the Committee’s agenda for that date may list up to 20 separate bills under consideration. In my opinion and from the perspective of our legislative team, it is not in our best interest to “pack the room” with snowmobilers when so many others have similar business before the Legislature.

Over the coming weeks and months, there will be hearings on the Assembly companion to SB-406 (more information below ), a Joint Finance Committee hearing and hopefully, floor debates before the full Senate and full Assembly. Opportunities to travel to Madison and to potentially coordinate another “AWSC Day in Madison” abound, and we aim to find a date when our attendance is most beneficial.

To best serve our cause, we ask that you contact the Senate Committee members listed below and voice your support for SB-406. Ultimately, we would be best served if contact came from AWSC members living in these legislators’ respective districts.

Senator Jim Sullivan (D- Wauwatosa) 1-866-817-6061
Senator Jeff Plale (D- South Milwaukee) 1-800-361-5487 Note: Co-Sponsor of SB-406
Senator David Hansen (D- Green Bay) 1-866-221-9395 Note: Co-Sponsor of SB-406
Senator Joseph Leibham (R- Sheboygan) 1-888-295-8750
Senator Neal Kedzie (R- Elkhorn) 1-800-578-1457
Senator Glenn Grothman (R- West Bend) 1-800-662-1227 Note: Co-Sponsor of SB-406

Please be courteous and concise when contacting these legislators, emphasizing the financial strain under which clubs and volunteers have been operating and that similar CAP programs in other states have been extremely successful. Follow-up concerns and comments can be directed to Morris Nelson at (608) 884-8461.

Please make your calls immediately. Thank you.


LRB-3172 Is now known as SB-406


TOLL-FREE LEGISLATIVE HOTLINE: 1-800-362-9472


AWSC CAP/STEP LEGISLATION

For nearly four decades, volunteers (particularly AWSC members) have maintained the quality and safety of Wisconsin snowmobile trails. These trails are regarded as some of the best (if not THE best) in the country. Snowmobiling has become one of our state’s leading outdoor activities, contributing hundreds of millions of dollars in tourism and retail revenue to state coffers.

During these many years, AWSC members have been paying up to $20.00 annually in membership dues in addition to standard registration fees. They have purchased expensive grooming machines, acquired access to properties and volunteered countless hours of their time in order to assure the quality of our trails.

Shortfalls in funding and reimbursement have become regular occurrences, and the financial burden and time commitments placed upon AWSC members have grown immense. Nearly $2 Million in project requests for the 2009-2010 snowmobile season were denied due to a shortfall in available funds, while the number of volunteers maintaining our trails is shrinking.

Several states have addressed these growing problems by instituting their own versions of the CAP/STEP program, successfully increasing funding for snowmobiling and increasing membership in organizations that foster trail maintenance, quality and safety.

Registration fees in our state have not increased in over 10 years. Even though costs have gone up significantly over that period, each year the quality of our trails has remained intact due to the efforts of volunteers who often pay out-of-pocket to keep our system in top condition.

Combining annual registration and trail pass fees, snowmobilers in our neighboring states typically pay more than Wisconsin operators even though our state has many more miles of trails to maintain and supervise. Through the CAP/STEP program, Wisconsin can remain a tourism draw, infuse much-needed revenue into the Snowmobile Program and increase membership in clubs which for decades have been carrying more than their fair share of the workload with respect to maintaining Wisconsin’s snowmobile trails.

Under this program, we are not forcing snowmobilers to join clubs. We are asking the Legislature to raise the cost of resident trail fees for every resident snowmobiler. The exception is that if an individual already contributes $20.00 annually to a not-for-profit AWSC member club, the cost of that club membership will act as a credit toward the purchase of a resident trail pass. Again, similar programs in other states have proven to be extremely successful in raising capital and increasing active membership numbers.

The continued success of the Wisconsin snowmobile trail system is at risk, and the time to raise the cost of operating a sled is at hand. Contact your legislators and ask them to co-sponsor Senator Holperin’s LRB-3172, the comprehensive snowmobile bill.



CONTACT YOUR LEGISLATORS AND ASK THEM TO CO-SPONSOR LRB-3172, THE COMPREHENSIVE SNOWMOBILE BILL OFFERED BY SENATOR HOLPERIN.

TOLL-FREE LEGISLATIVE HOTLINE: 1-800-362-9472


LRB-3172 (CAP/STEP LEGISLATION) FEATURES

1. Makes registration a one-time event unless a transfer occurs.
2. Requires the use of an annual trail use sticker to ride on snowmobile trails.
3. Establishes a two tiered trail use sticker fee - $34.25 and $14.25 for AWSC member effective July 1, 2010. Owners with valid registrations for 2010-2011 receive a $15.00 credit for their 2010-2011 trail use sticker. Owners whose snowmobile registration expires on June 30, 2010 will not have to renew their registration and instead only will need to acquire an annual trail use sticker.
4. Authorizes AWSC as the vendor for resident snowmobile club trail user stickers and that AWSC will be able to recoup its administrative costs.
NOTE: Trail use stickers would continue to be available to non-AWSC members through DNR and associated vendors.
5. Trail stickers become the basis for appropriations, rather than registrations.
6. Allocates the entire non-resident trail fee to the Supplemental Account.
7. Eliminates the sunset provision on nighttime 55 mph speed limit.
8. For fiscal years 2010-2011 and for the 2 fiscal years thereafter, appropriates:
• $150,000 for state law enforcement. Actual appropriation is roughly $25,000 as 2009-2010 state budget includes nearly $125,000 for law enforcement
• $40,000 for alcohol education and alternative transportation programs
• $30,000 for state trails.
9. Creates an absolute sobriety standard for operators under the legal drinking age.
10. Doubles the penalties for intoxicated snowmobilers if a minor under the age of 16 is riding on the snowmobile.

TOLL-FREE LEGISLATIVE HOTLINE: 1-800-362-9472

[whitedust]

Yikes!! Here comes the corrupt patronage government system for snowmobiling!!! When all said & done will cost me twice as much & breed regulations up the ying yang. Sen. Holperin is killing us with big government & new laws.

[ubee]

AWSC prez will want to create a big salary too! Going the same way as old USSA did and will need a bailout in a couple of years!

[whitedust]

Anyway to recall Sen. Holperin?? He is BAD BAD NEWS for the Northwoods!! He has done sooooooo much damage in so little time. Get ready to open your wallet to this guy he is going to break us with cost of big goverment & regulations! UNREAL so far!!

[nic]

So they're saying you won't register a snowmobile in Wisconsin anymore? Just pay a user fee for a trail pass? How is the state going to get it's money from sales taxes if no one has to register their machine? It also makes note of those whose current registration expires in 2010 & 2011, but what about people like me that have a new machine and just recieved my 2 yr WI Reg sticker that doesn't expire until 2012? I'm one of those IL peeps who registers in both states- my WI Reg is my trail pass and it's good for 2 yrs instead of 1. We'll see how this plays out....

[xcsp]

Found a copy of the bill on the AWSC site:

http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/SB-406.pdf

[cat_man_mike]

Looks like I will be driving through Wisconsin to the UP from now on. Pretty soon you will have to have a sticker even if you have your sled on your trailer while driving.

[sabercat]

"Under this program, we are not forcing snowmobilers to join clubs. We are asking the Legislature to raise the cost of resident trail fees for every resident snowmobiler. The exception is that if an individual already contributes $20.00 annually to a not-for-profit AWSC member club, the cost of that club membership will act as a credit toward the purchase of a resident trail pass. Again, similar programs in other states have proven to be extremely successful in raising capital and increasing active membership numbers.

The continued success of the Wisconsin snowmobile trail system is at risk, and the time to raise the cost of operating a sled is at hand."


Maybe if you didn't have that holier than thou attitude you would have more of a membership base.

I called my Representative and voiced my concern!

[snodogg]

"Authorizes AWSC as the vendor for resident snowmobile club trail user stickers and that AWSC will be able to recoup its administrative costs."

One can only guess what the administrative costs are. Right now it costs me 15 bucks a year to ride the trails and around my house they get groomed too much as it is. Not sure why they (AWSC) needs more money for administration and trail funding.

If we have snow we have great slnowmobiling as it is. plain and simple.

[whitedust]

AWSC wants paid postions ......become a paid job. Patronage government system for snowmobiling just ask Tony Soprano he understands.

[fatdaddy]

First of all quit making us buy all those damm stickers, and maybe go to a national license like on a car or motercycle. How much does those stickers cost the state. Second I live in Minnesota and have joined a WI club, however when I get the news letters or invites to meetings there always during the week. I live 5 hours away. This sport sucks so much of my money I'm really wondering if its worth it. For example, to fill my truck to head to the cabin is $75.00, so now that I'm there I drive into town with the family (4 sleds) fill them with gas, lets say another $75.00 then we put on 30 miles and grab a pizza or something, Another $40.00, then we ride a little more and sometimes go out to eat $75.00 and then top all the sleds with oil at home, $40.00 a gallon. Each time I pay tax on everything, and help stimulate the locals pocket. Most of the time all I hear is Boo Hoo Hoo the city people come up here and act like they own everything and there so demanding. What have those people ever purchased from me. It really pisses me off sometimes, I also pay taxes for schools my kids don't even go to. Ok, I know, I'm lucky to have a job and a cabin to go to, but you can only go to the well so many times before it goes dry as well. It seems like taxes are the only way to get money, what happend to working for it.

[whitedust]

Same thing happend to me in Sidnaw yesterday. Local "Hey you must be a rich guy riding a new Yamaha Apex." Whitedust "No I'm an old guy that rides alone & needs a good sled." "You don't want to find me dead alone in the woods do ya?" Locals laugh. "No Happy New Year" Whitedust "Same to you see ya".

I have been in Nothwoods for 6 years now & the have nots notice what we have & they don't. It pisses them off because we are better off than them & you just have to give it right back to them when they start ribbing you. We pay the big taxes for their water, roads & schools but all they see is we got it & they don't. I always leave these encounters thinking you AHole I busted my *** all my life to get what I have now. You want what I have go bust your butt same as I did. No one dropped a Yamaha Apex in my lap I earned the bucks & bought it.

I spread the bucks locally as much as I can so there is some local infrastucture & services. Now big government has their hand out too with little or no ROI for taxes that benefit me. We have to keep goverment out of snowmobiling or will only cost more for less services. All politics now & was not that way before. Big change coming in the next election. I'm sick of it already bailouts, big goverment, taxes going way up. No reason for snwomobiling to be government controlled other than they want our money.

[whitedust]

7. Eliminates the sunset provision on nighttime 55 mph speed limit.

You can bet this is bait & switch!! AWSC ALWAYS supported nighttime 55 mph speed limit.

[swampcat]

Born free- taxed to DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blu2u2]

This is a very interesting thread! Everybody has a right to their personal opinion but I would like to know why so many people are against this Bill? I understand that most people are not wanting to pay more $$$ to ride. However, I do not agree with the negative remarks about the AWSC wanting to make the leadership job a paid position. What other club or organization that has 25,000 + members has a volunteer in charge??? The President of the AWSC is a full time job plain and simple.

The AWSC has some "problems" due to the fact that since 2001 the total membership has been on the decline. In fact, if my math is correct, only about 13% of registered sled owners are club members in WI. This statistic is alarming because the majority of the 25,000 miles of trails in WI are maintained by the clubs. People need to understand the number of hours that goes into the trails and trail system. Besides from the obvious job of marking the trails the landowners need to be contacted to get permission to use their land. The trails then need to be prepped/brushed. All of this work is done behind the scenes so once the snow falls the trails can then be groomed flat (most people would not be happy riding on trails that are not groomed). Without the clubs I would like to see how the trails would be.

Snowmobiling is not cheap and with the negative economy a lot of people are forced to be smart about how they spend. If so many people are against paying more money to ride in WI then maybe they should consider joining a snowmobile club. United We Trail...Divided We Fail!

[sabercat]

"However, I do not agree with the negative remarks about the AWSC wanting to make the leadership job a paid position. What other club or organization that has 25,000 + members has a volunteer in charge??? The President of the AWSC is a full time job plain and simple."


If your so worried about paying the president of YOUR club, then pay him out of YOUR pocket. What a F'd up way to think. No wonder you guys don't have a membership...

[blu2u2]

"However, I do not agree with the negative remarks about the AWSC wanting to make the leadership job a paid position. What other club or organization that has 25,000 + members has a volunteer in charge??? The President of the AWSC is a full time job plain and simple."


If your so worried about paying the president of YOUR club, then pay him out of YOUR pocket. What a F'd up way to think. No wonder you guys don't have a membership...

Nice reply sabercat! When did my reply ever say anything about paying the president of my club?

[sabercat]

I'm sorry, but by your post I would have bet you to have the snowmobile riding badger tattoo. Nothing personal. But with getting jammed with tax after tax, user fee after user fee, this is over the top.

[blu2u2]

I'm sorry, but by your post I would have bet you to have the snowmobile riding badger tattoo. Nothing personal. But with getting jammed with tax after tax, user fee after user fee, this is over the top.

No problem sabercat! I am the club treasurer and membership chair and will be going for the AWSC County Director position this year. However I don't have the snowmobile riding badger tattoo but that is a good idea ;-).

[sabercat]

I have yet to ever see a membership drive. I have never seen club events advertised locally. I have never seen a fund raiser, etc. Any information I have found I looked it up myself. Maybe clubs need to be more active. I'm sure some clubs are better at marketing than others.

Nobody is questioning the amount of work that they do. I would think that more people would want to join a club, why is it that membership is down? Snowmobiliers are very passionate about their sport and most would like to socialize with other like minded individuals.

[sabercat]

The snowmobile riding Badger is cool!

[erkoehler]

I donate every time I get gas for my sled, and always donate when stopped for food/drink and see a collection jar.

I am not a member of a club. Never have been, I guess I have never been sought out or asked to join or I probably would have.

Honestly, in all seriousness what is me joinging a club going to do? Remember, I donate already and the trail crosses our property.

[thunderstruck88]

I think it's time for a snowmobile tea party !!!!!!!!!! Also time to recall or vote out of office all the people that tax us to death in this country . I wonder what our founding leaders would think of wha't going on in this country . Keep us informed of what's happening in Wisconsin please!!! Thank you THINK SNOW and PRAY for FREEDOM and common sense to come back to this country soon . We all are in trouble big time !!!!

[renegade]

I, too, would like to know what people don't like about this bill. It is pretty obvious some people are complaining about it and have not even read it. You will still have to register a snowmobile, but just once until you sell then the new owner will need to register. The bill eliminates the sunset provision of the nighttime speed limit which will make it a permanent law. As far as the extra $15 a year to buy a sticker, give me a break. The shortfall for trail maintence was over $2,000,000 bucks this year. The big increase in money comes from the out of state stickers. Right now hardly any of the out of state money ends up towards trails, and this bill will fix that. As far as paid president position, didn't see it in the bill. If you are against something the AWSC is doing join the club and voice your opinion. At the last meeting they had a mic and anybody could stand up to it and speak. I suggest you do it, and put your complaining to good use. I do not agree with everything the AWSC says and does, but without the people who are involved with it and the snowmobile clubs there would be no trails, PERIOD. Instead of ripping the bill and claiming "big goverment", read it, pick something out you don't like and explain why you don't like it. I am intereseted to hear it.

[whitedust]

My problem is everyone that is part of AWSC will want wages. ie I talked to Farmer Brown he resigned his land again this year for the trail that took me 2 hours + drove my truck used 2 gallons of gas yada...yada....yada on & on. Contract could by carried by US Mail but money floating around you have corruption. Grooming is pretty darn good now by volunteers & I have no complaints. If you pay groomers you will have over grooming & wreck trails because they want the hours & wages. Current system is NOT broken why suddenly does all this have to paid positions? Only 1 reason GREED & patronage government system for snowmobiling & that is all about Sen. Holperin. Sen. Holperin gets paid positions for AWSC & in next election Sen. Holperin has AWSC in his pocket to get votes out for him. What does snowmobilng get out of it???? Plain & simple much higher trail fees, laws & regulations up the ying yang so paid AWSC can justify their jobs. Whole thing makes me want to PUKE!! The entire idea is corrupt from the get go just patronage politics nothing more & NOT necessary.

Contact these senators tell them Vote NO for WI Senate Bill SB-406 :
Senator Jim Sullivan (D- Wauwatosa) 1-866-817-6061
Senator Jeff Plale (D- South Milwaukee) 1-800-361-5487 Note: Co-Sponsor of SB-406
Senator David Hansen (D- Green Bay) 1-866-221-9395 Note: Co-Sponsor of SB-406
Senator Joseph Leibham (R- Sheboygan) 1-888-295-8750
Senator Neal Kedzie (R- Elkhorn) 1-800-578-1457
Senator Glenn Grothman (R- West Bend) 1-800-662-1227 Note: Co-Sponsor of SB-406

TOLL-FREE LEGISLATIVE HOTLINE: 1-800-362-9472

I told Sen. Holperin "NO" on 264 & "NO" on Senate Bill SB-406. Sen. Holperin has already passed Bill 264 that does NOT allow you to ride off a WI marked trail for any reason & you can get a ticiket for getting gas, food or drink off the marked trail. Sen. Holperin is anti ATV riding & snowmobiling. I'm telling you this guy is BAD news for our sport & needs to be stopped ASAP! If we can not recall him then we need to at least tell him "NO" & then vote him out in the next election.

[renegade]

Went through the bill again, did not see anything about paid positions or paid groomer drivers. Maybe you could point out the section it is in. I am not a holperin fan either. He sounded like a total scumbag sleeze politician at the meeting. Especially after scott walker spoke.

[fatdaddy]

once again I don't have a problem paying for what I use, I know is costs alot because I pay the bills. I see $65,000.00 groomers all over the place and I'm ok with that, but quit saying join a club, or your a jerk. Like I said in my other posting, I joined a club and I live 5 hours away, I do what I can, I help out when I can, I buy your food, drinks and other items when I can. Just don't force this down my throat or you won't like the out come. I will walk away from this in a heartbeat and the see what you'll have. I use to hunt out of state as well and you raised the prices so high I quite hunting, and my son doesn't hunt because I don't. So tell me what money did you really get-zero. Guess what I don't fish anymore either because you screw the 6788 out of me because I live out of state even though I own a cabin in your state. Don't blame me for leaving the sports blame yourselfs.

[whitedust]

Went through the bill again, did not see anything about paid positions or paid groomer drivers. Maybe you could point out the section it is in. I am not a holperin fan either. He sounded like a total scumbag sleeze politician at the meeting. Especially after scott walker spoke.

AWSC wants to become a middle man clearing house for fees & wants to recoup its administrative costs. They have money & do what they want with the money as an administrative cost. How do we control that as individuals?.... there is no way. It will be like looking at your city goverments budget impossible to trace specific expenditures. When you ask about a line item entry you get complete run around & your head starts to hurt with all BS being thrown around & bottom line they don't know & don't want you to know either but it was an administrative cost line item. Bottom line WI trails are NOT broken this just is not necessay it is sleeze politician big goverment BS that wants to take your money & put in patrons pockets. I have been around the block once or twice & have seen this type of thing before. If you don't think AWSC will become paid postions you are being mislead. AWSC has had paid position agenda for many years & Holperin sees this as an opportunity for grass roots patronage that will benefit him. Bill 264 stripped us of off marked trail riding opportunities now this before the ink is dry on 264. The bigger question is what is the next Bill Holperin has cooked up that will further limit your snowmobiling freedom.

See Below:

4. Authorizes AWSC as the vendor for resident snowmobile club trail user stickers and that AWSC will be able to recoup its administrative costs.
NOTE: Trail use stickers would continue to be available to non-AWSC members through DNR and associated vendors.
5. Trail stickers become the basis for appropriations, rather than registrations.
6. Allocates the entire non-resident trail fee to the Supplemental Account.
8. For fiscal years 2010-2011 and for the 2 fiscal years thereafter, appropriates:
• $150,000 for state law enforcement. Actual appropriation is roughly $25,000 as 2009-2010 state budget includes nearly $125,000 for law enforcement
• $40,000 for alcohol education and alternative transportation programs
• $30,000 for state trails.

[united]

I beleive this bill makes the 55 mph speed limit at night permanent. It gets rid of the July 1st expiration date. As it is set up, after July 1st, 2010 the nighttime speed limit would have reverted back to the previous No Limit. This bill gets rid of going back to no limit and keeps the 55 mph limit at night.

If you are against the 55 mph at night limit, you should be against this bill.

[xcsp]

I'm not against the 55mph at night, but hope any revenue taken in is used for it's intended purpose, not sucked up in administrative costs or "robbing Peter to pay Paul" like Wisconsin's highway fund or the social security fund!!!

[90s]

Some kind of equlizer is needed, why should a club member end up paying more(club dues & registration). I guess you can head to the UP, their non-res pass is $35 & going up next year. I don't feel that the extra apprx $20 is going to break anybody, I enjoy riding in the UP, so I buy their nonres pass with out question or complaints. As far as paid positions, I wish I could get union scale for all the brushing/signing and time I put in on trail related matters and attending snowmobile related meetings. My concern with the bill is that it does not have anything in it about drunk operation other than if you're under the legal age & operating with a minor. I'm an advocate of ZERO TOLARENCE like MN & MI, AWSC says "drink responsible", (it's ok to operate half buzzed).

[sabercat]

Gee, If this passes I get to pay the state to register my snowmobile. Then I have to buy a trail pass from AWSC, And it went from $30 to $35. Thats great! Thanks AWSC, you really do care...about yourselves.

This really treats familys and other multiple sled owners right.

[ubee]

some where else I read of a plan like this,lets see! create jobs ,redistribute the $$ . cant remember what country? Why fix something when it ain't broke? why partner up with the government ? They have managed the deer herd and fisherys and forests and look what we ended up with ! Its all about the $ and people trying to line their pockets without going to jail! Who gets the snowmobilers share of the gas tax? That will be next! join a club!

[whitedust]

You got that right ubee! AWSC combined with state goverment is about as bad as it can get. As said above suddenly clubs will want brushing money for administarion costs because the money is there. As you said "it ain't broke!" No fix is necessary. I totally agree current system works well & does not have incremental cost to us. This Bill is simply lining pockets of patronage system. Pure politics. I would rather have club memebers doing what they do because they luv the sport & we are thankful for their contributuions. Start paying much higher trail permits or registrations & my exspectations go way up. Why NOT? I will want more for more not less or about the same for more. You right "it ain't broke"!!!!!!!!!!!

[lookin4snow]

I will agree that the "system ain't broke," however, it certainly could use some help. The requests from clubs for reimbursement of trail expenses fell $2,000,000 short last year. The $250/mile by no means comes close to our expenses to groom each year, and if there is no money available for supplemental grooming, then our club has to come up with the money. Last year we our reimbursement from the County (through WDNR) was $5,000 less than our expenses. So, we have a dilemma. Either we do fundraising to come up with the $5,000 or we reduce grooming. So far this year we have had good snow and that means we are grooming a lot. We still have money. But at some point, if the snow continues, we will have to either borrow money and hope we get reimbursed, or reduce grooming. Last year our $5,000 shortfall was after we reduced grooming. We heard about the reduced grooming from our membership.

I can only assume that other clubs are in the same boat as we are given the $2,000,000 shortfall. In the current economy, where state budgets (including WDNR) are being cut, there is no possible way to get additional state money under the status quo.

So, what do we do? I'm willing to purchase a trail pass for Wisconsin (I already spend $35 in Michigan and $20 in Wyoming per year) provided the money goes to the trails. I think that there are a lot of people that would be in favor of that. Now, how you administer it, let's talk about that! And no, I sure don't trust the WDNR or the current Governor to do that!

[MOTOSKI]

OK

[sabercat]

Instead of squeezing more money from snowmobiliers, maybe AWSC should have rallied snowmobiliers and demanded that the state redistribute all the money that snowmobiliers generate back into the sport. Instead of skimming alot of it off. They would look like heros instead of zeros, and club memberships would soar!

This has snowmobilier against snowmobilier

[ezra]

Some kind of equlizer is needed, why should a club member end up paying more(club dues & registration). I guess you can head to the UP, their non-res pass is $35 & going up next year. I don't feel that the extra apprx $20 is going to break anybody, I enjoy riding in the UP, so I buy their nonres pass with out question or complaints. As far as paid positions, I wish I could get union scale for all the brushing/signing and time I put in on trail related matters and attending snowmobile related meetings. My concern with the bill is that it does not have anything in it about drunk operation other than if you're under the legal age & operating with a minor. I'm an advocate of ZERO TOLARENCE like MN & MI, AWSC says "drink responsible", (it's ok to operate half buzzed).

if .08 is 1/2 buzzed then yes it is ok most of us are adults and know how to take care of ourselves with out some politician deciding sledding is to risky to have a beer when stopping for lunch.then maybe no drinking when pulling a trailer? what about stopping on the way home from work to have a beer? stop that to .maybe no drinking at home you may be to stupid to stay in the house and get in your car.0 tolerance is a verry slippery steep slope that may sound good but will always end with loss of your rights.think not look at smoking people have been sued and lost in CA for smoking in there own home because a guy across the street is offended look it up.I really dont give a crap I don't drink more than 15 beers a yr but I dont need some one to tell me I cant have one when I want one.I am a adult with self control.

[nic]

Wait- how are you figuring club members would pay more? They're going to subtract your dues from registration. For example:
Registration costs- $50
guy in club a paid $20 for dues. Therefore, he owes $30 for reg
guy in club b paid $30 for dues. Therefore, he owes $20 for reg
I live in IL, am in a club here, but not in WI, so I pay $50 for reg. And- it sounds like I'll have to register my sled in WI in order to ride there since there will be no out of state or trail sticker. I could be wrong, but that's what I got from it.
And yes, the removal of the 'sunset of the speed limit' means remove the expiration, it will remain permanently.

[ubee]

What I see happening here,is the price of snowmobiling increasing substancily.It will turn into 100% user pay (somebodys got to pay) The price will get so high it will force some people out of the sport,leaving less people to pay(bigger slices of the pie) Less people paying will put the clubs in dire straits to pay the bills.Less grooming will make people ride elsewhere or just drop out. Pretty soon only the elite will be able to ride!That is the reason they passed bill 264 so the poor people with kids and lots of sleds cant say screw you ,we wont ride your groomed trails we will ride in the woods and lakes on non -groomed trails on state land.The dnr has already started blocking off every logging road,little tote roads,etc. in this part of the northwoods.Again what good is state land if you cant use it ? Most people have never heard of the Wisconsin DNR's Master Plan or ever attended any informational meetings. their plan wants to eliminate residents ,business,villages,and make ghost towns up here.not many kids graduating from hs around here can find employment here.We have lost over a thousand resorts alone in Vilas county alone since the 60's.The only thing they want up here is wolves,wilderness,and trees.Also with the DNR with buget cuts also will kill 2 birds with one stone by getting AWSC to do their work for them and throw a few crumbs at them when they squeak!
Its a sad day for snowmobiling,a sad day for my grandkids!

[thunderstruck88]

i think it's a sad day period in the whole U S A not just in snowmobiling . I think we should recall the government and go back to the original constituation that Jefferson , Franklin and Washington had for us . Make government simple not complicated!!!!!

[whitedust]

Ubee is correct approved Bill 264 hurt snowmobiling in WI badly. Sen Holprin could have pulled snowmobiles out of that bill be he did not. Northwest Vilas county has a strong tree hugger mentaility & very deep pockets so ubee is seeing FR road closings 1st. I'm in NE Vilas where the residents are more open minded to forest useage but since the passage of Bill 264 I fear my FR trails will be blocked off as well. Now here comes Sen Holprin with WI Senate Bill SB-406 which is his method to build a grassroots poltical patronage system with AWSC. Holprin could care less about snowmobiling or he never would have supported Bill 264. You have to open your eyes to everything that is happpening with Holprin he can not be trusted & is indeed reducing your access to WI public land.

[ubee]

The state is bull-dozing every logging road,tote road,trail that access state land in the american legion state forest here in vilas county.I guess you still can snowshoe,x-country ski or walk but not sure if wheelchair accessable!We need the awsc to be private lobbyists and not partnerup with the state or snomo clubs will be history!In 4 yrs grass roots guy will retire again and will be rewarded with a high paying position to oversee operations cause he knows the system.hope the taxpayers and voters reward him for all his efforts! over,Iam going riding while I still can!

[xcsp]

For anyone interested, State Assembly Rep. Dean Kaufert will be attending the Drifter's Snowmobile Club meeting tonight (Thursday, Feb.11th) in the ballroom of the Rodeo Bar & Grill in Neenah. 7:30p.m. sharp

He will be there to discuss the proposed SB406 bill.


The address for the bar is 2788 Towne Court, right off of County Road II just east of Hyw. 76 in Neenah.

From what I have heard, Mr. Kaufert isn't 100% sold on the bill. Curious to find out what he likes and dislikes about the bill.

[jr37]

It is amazing the amount of complaining over an amount of money that is less than 1 tank of gas in a sled. People drive $8-12,000 sleds and complain that it will cost an extra $15 or so a year. This little extra money that it costs each sled owner will be a huge benefit to the clubs. When stop to look at the big picture, this extra money each year is very small in compared to what is already spent. The clubs need this increase, grooming and groomers are expensive. A new groomer will run $125-175,000 dollars. Where do you think that money comes from, not from the dollar you put in the donation box. Stop complaining about this bill, and support it. We need to help one another, not drive a wedge between each other.

[harvest1121]

I do not think people will mind paying if all the money goes to snowmobiling and does not line someones pockets. Who will keep track of the money the Goverment? We saw how well this works. I remember the first time I had to pay for a Michigan permit I was like great I can pay for a crackhead in detroit. All this is is a new tax. If the clubs need the money thats fine but funding other projects and not snowmobiling is not what I want.

[grub]

If the firelanes become unlawful to ride in Wisc I will never bother to go back to Wisc again. Where are you supposed to go when the trails are crap? Also spoke with 2 groomer operators last week that were most definitely getting paid and were quite happy about it. More government always makes things worse.

[whitedust]

Grub: Holprin already passed Bill 264 which restricts riding to the marked trail only. So FRs unless marked as a trail are no ride zones & you can get a ticket. Both ubee & I told Holprin to vote No .....he voted Yes & now is law. Iron county WI allows riding FRs in county owned land other than that it is no longer legal. Maybe some counties will mark FRs for riding who knows at this point. Bill 264 was a bad law for snowmobiles but Holprin did not care.

[grub]

Grub: Holprin already passed Bill 264 which restricts riding to the marked trail only. So FRs unless marked as a trail are no ride zones & you can get a ticket. Both ubee & I told Holprin to vote No .....he voted Yes & now is law. Iron county WI allows riding FRs in county owned land other than that it is no longer legal. Maybe some counties will mark FRs for riding who knows at this point. Bill 264 was a bad law for snowmobiles but Holprin did not care.

That about does it then. Our trip to Wisc last week will be the last one. Each of us spent about $1000 for the week. We have been going there for over 20 years. We will probably just stay in MN next year. I never thought I would see the day when Wisc got to be less sled friendly than MN but it appears to have happened.

[whitedust]

All we can do is vote Holprin out in next election but the damage he & his dem. buds are doing to WI motor sports is huge! Life will only will be tougher on Ma & Pa biz in the WI Northwoods.

[xcsp]

I attended the meeting and it appears, as I understand it, is that this bill may not be passed (at least not at this time) as there are several people within the House & Senate that are not comfortable with the trail permit cost, that it is too large of an increase, at this time.

Also mentioned that outside of members of snowmobile clubs, the AWSC and the people involved in Madison with the Bill, the rest of the snowmobilers are not or may not be aware of the proposed bill and associated costs that they may face if and when it passes.

Mr. Kaufert mentioned he has proposed a separate Bill on the 55mph night-time speed limit as well as a separate Bill for an increase in snowmobile registration from the current $30 every two years to $40 for that same period. (These may have a better chance to get approval before the end of their legislative session in May than the SB406 Bill.)

He said the 55mph at night really needs to happen as there is a lot of pressure especially with the sledding deaths as the majority of them include alcohol & speed.

Comment was made that the DNR wants results or they'll keep pushing for OWI on a sled to tie in with your driver's license. Next could be a set limit 24/7 such as Minnesota?
(Note to those who drink and ride-better start being more responsible!)

Kaufert felt the $10-per 2 year registration increase would help bring in the monies the clubs need, at least until they can sort out the original bill.

He also stated that people, especially those from outside of the clubs need to contact their representatives and get involved with the proposed legsilation and how they feel about it.

He said he has heard from a lot of club members, but not a lot of others. Understandable if they are not aware of what's going on.

Senator Holprin seems to be looking to Kaufert for guidance as he (Kaufert) is a snowmobiler, whereas others in the House & Senate are not.


Their legislative session ends in May so time is short.

My advice to all concerned sledders, contact your local representatives, contact Mr. Kaufert or Sen. Holprin and voice your opinions, offer ideas on what should be done, what shouldn't be done.

Dean was very open to ideas and is willing to help where he can.