Battery drain problem

[Ditch rider]

Problem just started this fall....98 Polaris 500 Classic that has E-start

Something is slowly draining the battery. Is there something on this sled that historically causes this type of problem?

How can I test the sled to find out where the drain is originating from? What type of tester is needed?

Thanks to everybody for your ideas!

[polarismike]

First of all, are you sure that the battery is good? You would need a multimeter to test for a draw. Set it to the amps setting, unhook the negative side of the battery cable and put one of the meter wires to the negative battery post, and the other meter wire to the negative battery cable. Now the draw will be flowing through the meter so you can read the draw.

Meters usually have amps and milliamp settings. Amps usually go to 10 amps, so start there. If it is set on milliamps and you have too large of a draw, you can blow the internal fuse inside the meter.


How long does it take the battery to go dead, and how old is the battery?

[indy_500]

We had to buy a brand new battery every stinkin year and we got sick of it, so we just left it in there and pull started it. Don't have any sleds with ES but buying batteries every year was a pain just so u could turn a key.

[polarismike]

If you are buying a battery every year, you are doing something wrong... Ever try a Battery Tender?

[indy_500]

If you are buying a battery every year, you are doing something wrong... Ever try a Battery Tender?

haha, oh yeah, even took the batteries out for the summer, ran them one day a week on the slow charge, didn't do a thing. season came around still crap, so let it sit for 2 days on the fast charge, still nothing, junked it and bought a new one. Real men start their sleds with a rope :)

[russholio]

Real men start their sleds with a rope :)

Real men used to ride animals for transportation, Indy....wanna go back to those days? :)

[peter]

[QUOTE=indy_500 Real men start their sleds with a rope

Thats funny go say that on totally yamaha

[Ditch rider]

First of all, are you sure that the battery is good? You would need a multimeter to test for a draw. Set it to the amps setting, unhook the negative side of the battery cable and put one of the meter wires to the negative battery post, and the other meter wire to the negative battery cable. Now the draw will be flowing through the meter so you can read the draw.

Meters usually have amps and milliamp settings. Amps usually go to 10 amps, so start there. If it is set on milliamps and you have too large of a draw, you can blow the internal fuse inside the meter.


How long does it take the battery to go dead, and how old is the battery?

Mike,

VERY helpful reply....thanks!

The battery is 3 years old. I remove it for the summer and put a trickle charger on it occasionally. It took less than a week for the battery to go from full charge to "not enough to engage the ES".

I do have a multimeter and will perform the test. I have to pull the battery today and charge it up first.

Any idea as to what might be causing it other than a wire rubbing through? Will a bad ignition switch cause the problem?

Thanks

DC

[harvest1121]

haha, oh yeah, even took the batteries out for the summer, ran them one day a week on the slow charge, didn't do a thing. season came around still crap, so let it sit for 2 days on the fast charge, still nothing, junked it and bought a new one. Real men start their sleds with a rope :)

I thought I did not need electric start or reverse. That was when I had my 2005 Firecat. There is no way I would ever be without it now. Its nice just to hit a button to start and back out of the trailer. Wait till you start towing your POO dragging off the trailer is not fun. Well I guess you know how to be towed after all your problems last year lol Good luck this year

[edmarino]

To Ditch Rider
First off, a battery will loose charge if just left standing,you should keep it on a Battery tender when ever it is not in use, you can never over charge a battery with a battery tender. And yes a bad starter switch if shorted can and will drain the battery,quickly. If you let the voltage drop below 11 volts in a battery for a period of time it will sulfate then it is dead. A battery maintainer like a batteryminder plus model 12117 can sometimes rejuvinate a battery if not to badly sulfated. It is also a charger which can be left on indefinatly and will not hurt the battery. A good charger is cheaper then a replacement battery.

[Ditch rider]

Mike,

VERY helpful reply....thanks!

The battery is 3 years old. I remove it for the summer and put a trickle charger on it occasionally. It took less than a week for the battery to go from full charge to "not enough to engage the ES".

I do have a multimeter and will perform the test. I have to pull the battery today and charge it up first.

Any idea as to what might be causing it other than a wire rubbing through? Will a bad ignition switch cause the problem?

Thanks

DC

Mike,

I did not charge the battery first. Battery reads 12.00 volts on the tester, but when I turn the key to e-start it = nothing.

I removed the ground wire and tested per your instructions and the meter shows no drain at any setting.

I have an Innova model 3300 tester (see it @ iequus.com). Not fancy but it works.

[doomsman]

Note that 12 volts is less than 50 percent charged
is the water level right
are all connections clean and tight
is ground cable clean and tight?

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8996/batterytable1118242f71.jpg

[indy_500]

I thought I did not need electric start or reverse. That was when I had my 2005 Firecat. There is no way I would ever be without it now. Its nice just to hit a button to start and back out of the trailer. Wait till you start towing your POO dragging off the trailer is not fun. Well I guess you know how to be towed after all your problems last year lol Good luck this year

i was never towed 500 went down in my yard, 700 went down right by a dealership so i left it there and came and picked it up, and my dad's 700 went down at a buddy's house.

[Ditch rider]

To Ditch Rider
First off, a battery will loose charge if just left standing,you should keep it on a Battery tender when ever it is not in use, you can never over charge a battery with a battery tender. And yes a bad starter switch if shorted can and will drain the battery,quickly. If you let the voltage drop below 11 volts in a battery for a period of time it will sulfate then it is dead. A battery maintainer like a batteryminder plus model 12117 can sometimes rejuvinate a battery if not to badly sulfated. It is also a charger which can be left on indefinatly and will not hurt the battery. A good charger is cheaper then a replacement battery.

I understand what you're saying but have been around sleds for a long time. Something changed/went bad here....

If the ignition switch is bad (you are referring to the key switch right?) then I would see a drain during the test I did at Polarismike's suggestion. Or are you referring to the starter solenoid which is down by the battery?

Not sure what to make of this = 2nd cell in the battery seems to be losing water...but I don't see a crack in the case anywhere, nor do I see water leaking out from anywhere.

Local auto parts store couldn't test the battery because the voltage was too low. Brought it back home to chage it and found the low cell as mentioned above.

I have the shop manual for this sled and I check the lighting coil output and it is good. There's a way to check the voltage regulator but I can't figure out exactly what to do.

[edmarino]

To Ditch Rider
If you have a short any where in your electrical system it would show on your meter. If you test across your + and - leads disconnected from the battery. You should have an open circuit if not the amount of ohms indicates the amount of short. If you have a short you will have to inspect each part of your electrical system to find it, i.e. starter, hand warmers, lights etc.
As far as the second cell being dry and no noticeable leak, then you could be boiling the water out when attempting to charge battery. Meaning this cell is shorted and not taking a charge also why the battery has no power. The battery should be able to hold 12.5 volts for at least 8 hours after you remove it from charger and let stand, if not you have a defective battery.
As far as checking the regulator, disconnect the battery and connect your meter across the leads and start your engine you should get a reading of 13 or more volts.

[Ditch rider]

To Ditch Rider
If you have a short any where in your electrical system it would show on your meter. If you test across your + and - leads disconnected from the battery. You should have an open circuit if not the amount of ohms indicates the amount of short. If you have a short you will have to inspect each part of your electrical system to find it, i.e. starter, hand warmers, lights etc.
As far as the second cell being dry and no noticeable leak, then you could be boiling the water out when attempting to charge battery. Meaning this cell is shorted and not taking a charge also why the battery has no power. The battery should be able to hold 12.5 volts for at least 8 hours after you remove it from charger and let stand, if not you have a defective battery.
As far as checking the regulator, disconnect the battery and connect your meter across the leads and start your engine you should get a reading of 13 or more volts.

To test for a short you would put the multitester on DC Ohms?

I will start the sled tomorrow AM and check the regulator.

[polarismike]

Ditchrider, if you have Zero volts when you turn the key switch, you either have a bad connection or the battery is junk. I never had much luck over 3 years with the lead acid snowmobile batteries. I have since switched to Odyssey battery, which is similiar to an Optima style, so we will see how long it lasts.

Batteries can show 12 volts, but the amps is important also. With that cell being low, it may be bad, which will affect output and may be your problem.

[edmarino]

To Ditch Rider
An ohm meter can be used on either a DC or an AC circuit, it is a way to check continuity or electrical flow thru a circuit. As Polarismike said a 3 year life on a battery if not kept on a battery tender all the time is about right. I keep mine on when ever the sled is not in use, meaning every day it is not being ridden. I now have five years on one and four on my other sled. That's because that's how old the sled's are. You can get a battery tender junior from Wing Stuff .com for like 24.99 with free shipping and no tax if you buy before Dec.14th. Most snowmobile dealers sell the same item for 39.99 or more.

[fredster]

I've had several sleds with e-start for the past 10 years and 3 years is what I get from lead-acid batteries....I've just gotten into the habit of replacing them at the 3 year mark. It is what it is........

[lenny]

i was never towed 500 went down in my yard, 700 went down right by a dealership so i left it there and came and picked it up, and my dad's 700 went down at a buddy's house.

you only get 4 downs and than the other team takes over, come on Indy, it's time, GO BLUE!!!!!!!! :D

[Ditch rider]

Ditchrider, if you have Zero volts when you turn the key switch, you either have a bad connection or the battery is junk. I never had much luck over 3 years with the lead acid snowmobile batteries. I have since switched to Odyssey battery, which is similiar to an Optima style, so we will see how long it lasts.

Batteries can show 12 volts, but the amps is important also. With that cell being low, it may be bad, which will affect output and may be your problem.

Mike,

What I meant by "nothing" when I turned the key was "nothing happened...the motor didn't turn over".

I try edmarino's ohm test to see if there is a drain. I'm thinking the battery is shot but I want to avoid what happened to me last year with my Yamaha Vector (the sled I'm working on now is my kids' sled).

The stator went bad on my Vector and thinking that my 5 year old AGM battery was finally shot, I went out and bought a new battery. Since the battery wasn't the cause of the problem, the Vector has a new battery in it and the "old" AGM battery....which is just fine....sits in my garage. It won't fit in the Polaris....too big and not enough room even if I modify the battery holder.

[Ditch rider]

I've done some testing but don't know what to think now....

With the sled running and I want to check the voltage between the + and - I get 6.5 volts. Edmarino said I should be getting 13 volts.

See the picture for the rest.....

When I test for ohms and put the red tester on the nut underneath the red "cover, and the black tester on ground, I get no reading (no draw?)

But.....

If I put the red tester on either of the phillips head screws or post for the cable shown on the right (it goes to the starter) I'm getting 23'ish ohms.

Does this mean that my starter solenoid is bad?

HELP!

[edmarino]

To Ditch Rider
IF your battery leads are not connected to the battery and you have a 12 volt battery then you need to get 13 volts across the leads to charge the battery. As far as the low ohms reading across the starter coil not energized that is were your short circuit is an causing the battery drain. I can't answer why you are only seeing 6.5 volts unless you have a 6 volt battery , you stated the battery was small compared to the one you have from your vector, I have a vector also and the battery is half the size of the one I have in my Polaris. The Polaris is a four stroke Liberty engine which is a monster to pull over, you can not pull it by hand. Both are 12 volt batteries. Which is another subject and not part of this thread.

[Ditch rider]

To Ditch Rider
IF your battery leads are not connected to the battery and you have a 12 volt battery then you need to get 13 volts across the leads to charge the battery. As far as the low ohms reading across the starter coil not energized that is were your short circuit is an causing the battery drain. I can't answer why you are only seeing 6.5 volts unless you have a 6 volt battery , you stated the battery was small compared to the one you have from your vector, I have a vector also and the battery is half the size of the one I have in my Polaris. The Polaris is a four stroke Liberty engine which is a monster to pull over, you can not pull it by hand. Both are 12 volt batteries. Which is another subject and not part of this thread.

The battery and system is a 12 volt system. It has a size/group 14 battery which is smaller than the size/group 18 battery in my Vector.

When I did the test that Polarismike suggested for battery drain, the test showed no drain (?).

I'm going to hook my "old" fully charged Vector battery up to the Polaris and
see what happens.

[lukn4snow]

ditch rider
You have gotten some good advice and some bad.
First of all, polarismike and edmarino both suggested you get a Battery Tender, very good advice as a Battery Tender of similar charger with the smart charge technology will taper off to a float charge state when your battery is fully charged and not over charge and ruin your battery. Almost all standard automotive battery chargers, even smaller ones will over charge and damage a small snowmobile or motor cycle battery. When you charged it on fast charge I’m sure that you cooked it, time for a new battery and a Battery Tender.

Secondly, the only correct way to test for parasitic draw, or battery drain as you referred to it, is with an amp meter. Ohm meter tests will not work and will only lead to confusing and misleading results. Polarismike gave good advice on this and recommended that you start by setting your amp meter on a 10 amp scale so that if you have a very large draw you don’t blow your meter fuse. If you don’t see any draw at that setting and I doubt you will, you then need to keep working down to the milliamp scale. I am not sure what the allowable spec. is for this sled but I would think for sure under 25 ma.

Thirdly, if the battery goes dead with the sled just sitting, not being used, it is not a charging system/low voltage problem. It is a parasitic draw or a failed battery problem. However if you want to test the charging system for voltage output, you need to have a good fully charged (12.6 volts open circuit voltage or greater) battery installed. Set the volt meter to DC voltage and connect at the battery terminals, remove the belt and bring the RPM up to >5,000. You should see the voltage in the 13.5 to 15.5 range if the charging system and regulator are working properly. Checking with out a battery connected is not going to give you a clean DC voltage to read and how different meters, especially a cheaper one, will react to this dirty voltage is a crap shoot, however my guess as to why you got such a low reading is that you checked it at low Idle RPM.

Lastly, 11.9 volts on a flooded lead acid cranking battery is considered 0% state of charge (I know that doesn’t quit agree with the chart that doomsmen posted but his chart doesn’t specify the battery type) so the fact that your sled wouldn’t crank with a battery at 12.00 volts shouldn’t surprise anyone as it was basically dead.

Hope this helps you and others that may read it.

[Ditch rider]

ditch rider
You have gotten some good advice and some bad.
First of all, polarismike and edmarino both suggested you get a Battery Tender, very good advice as a Battery Tender of similar charger with the smart charge technology will taper off to a float charge state when your battery is fully charged and not over charge and ruin your battery. Almost all standard automotive battery chargers, even smaller ones will over charge and damage a small snowmobile or motor cycle battery. When you charged it on fast charge I’m sure that you cooked it, time for a new battery and a Battery Tender.

Secondly, the only correct way to test for parasitic draw, or battery drain as you referred to it, is with an amp meter. Ohm meter tests will not work and will only lead to confusing and misleading results. Polarismike gave good advice on this and recommended that you start by setting your amp meter on a 10 amp scale so that if you have a very large draw you don’t blow your meter fuse. If you don’t see any draw at that setting and I doubt you will, you then need to keep working down to the milliamp scale. I am not sure what the allowable spec. is for this sled but I would think for sure under 25 ma.

Thirdly, if the battery goes dead with the sled just sitting, not being used, it is not a charging system/low voltage problem. It is a parasitic draw or a failed battery problem. However if you want to test the charging system for voltage output, you need to have a good fully charged (12.6 volts open circuit voltage or greater) battery installed. Set the volt meter to DC voltage and connect at the battery terminals, remove the belt and bring the RPM up to >5,000. You should see the voltage in the 13.5 to 15.5 range if the charging system and regulator are working properly. Checking with out a battery connected is not going to give you a clean DC voltage to read and how different meters, especially a cheaper one, will react to this dirty voltage is a crap shoot, however my guess as to why you got such a low reading is that you checked it at low Idle RPM.

Lastly, 11.9 volts on a flooded lead acid cranking battery is considered 0% state of charge (I know that doesn’t quit agree with the chart that doomsmen posted but his chart doesn’t specify the battery type) so the fact that your sled wouldn’t crank with a battery at 12.00 volts shouldn’t surprise anyone as it was basically dead.

Hope this helps you and others that may read it.

I appreciate any advice and understand that it's up to me whether to follow it or not. I'm pretty mechanically inclined but when it comes to 2S electrical systems systems, I'm at the mercy of the Shop Manual and advice.

I do have a newer battery charger that is 6v and 12v capable, and has a 2A - 12v setting. It typically will charge at 1 amp or less but the bottom line is that I need a tender. I'll look at the ones suggested in this thread as I really don't want to spend the $$ on another Optimate.

I have an Optimate III battery tender that's hardwired into my Vector. I think it's time to spend a few bucks on another tender for this sled and others that will follow.

I bought a battery yesterday @ NAPA. I first tried an AGM battery from Carquest but it was about 1/2" too wide for the battery holder. I couldn't find an AGM battery that would fit so I ended up buying a regular wet cell battery that has the caps on top.

Hopefully I'm all set now, and send out my thanks to all that took time to put the .02 in!