A message to the "Professional Trail Racers"

[Marty P]

Now this may irritate some people out there, but holy wah! For those who think they are professional “trail racers” you really need to get a clue. Fortunately, we only had to ride the trail about three miles this Saturday, during our three mile ride I truly felt that my life was in jeopardy three times.

The first was a group of six coming at us; apparently they were in a “professional trail race” to the Harbor and were trying to figure out which one of them was the stupidest on the way. Attempting to pass your buddy on a curve on a public trail at 80mph? Can anyone in the group, other than the leader, see anything but snow dust while traveling 80 mph at five foot intervals?

The second group was also traveling at a very high rate of speed way to close together (does anybody remember the three second rule from drivers education) and was from all appearances relatively new to this sport; I don’t really care how many are in your group, would you please keep both hands on the handlebars you can hardly control that dam thing! Also, if you are all only 15 feet apart I can tell there are five of you, you don’t have to let me know (see point one here)!

The final straw was the group that caught us from behind, I knew you were there, thank god, I was rolling 60ish, in my opinion an appropriate speed, and my riding partner was following at appropriate distance behind me. First you had to pass my partner at about 90 mph, then as you rode my *** I raised my left had high in the air to signal my slowing and my intent to pull off the trail. In that situation, it might be appropriate to slow down rather than pin it and fly by me. I know you are a “professional trail racer” I could tell the second I heard your pipe, I am on an 800 E-tech and I can virtually guarantee you, you are not faster. Literally, if I had had a gun I would have shot you in the back of the head, you are dumb asses!

Now some of you this may agree with this little message, some may not; this message is for the nots. We rode six (6) hours this past Saturday (1/8/2011) in the Keweenaw and admittedly we are not even in the same class as you “professional trail racers”. By your standards we are wimps, we covered a whopping 48 miles in that six hours which calculates to an average speed of about 8 mph, not even in the same class as you 150+ miler “professional trail racers”. So please, next time you see some guy riding down the trail completely covered in snow from top to bottom, cut me a break I’m trying to get off the trail as fast as I can but my abilities are limited I’m not a professional like you.

[trailblazer]

I could not have said it better. It's morans like those "Professioal Trail Racers" that are wrecking this sport for everyone. When you come upon some sleds, coming or going---you better dam well slow down. I carry a club on my sled just in case someone does that to me.

[stealthv]

Prefer to throw them under the bus as "bar-hopping, take the hands of the bars to dart towards me, throttle jockeys" myself.

[zltim]

I could not have said it better. It's morans like those "Professioal Trail Racers" that are wrecking this sport for everyone. When you come upon some sleds, coming or going---you better dam well slow down. I carry a club on my sled just in case someone does that to me.


What do you expect. Its almost impossible to buy a sled that isn't advertized as the fastest or more power then last year or carves the trails and young idiots think they can drive like crazy because they just bought the trail pass and the race sled just like so and so drives in the races.

I wish I had a club with me at times also.

[joks79]

Well said. I had that same problem two years ago when I was up there. On Saturday on trail 8 near Munising I had people on my side of the trail coming at me. Saw two morons line up and drag race.

What I also don't get is sled dog racers practicing on the groom trail. It happed three times this weekend. The mushers are going from side to side and don't have clue what i going on around them. I understand they need to practice, but is a snowmobile trail the correct place to do this?

[AlumaDoo]

All well said. Funny thing is, these morons are the first to whine when a section of trail gets closed. They're the ones that cut the corners and go off trail, right after the sign that says "Stay on trail or stay home". I perfer to stay home and ride in southern WI. Don't get me wrong, there are the same kinda clowns around here too. If there isn't snow, I'll wait for snow...I like my life, I'm not gonna let some immature, punk-ars throttle jockey ruin of for me or my wife.

[skidont]

And people wonder why I only ride during the week , this is why

[Administrator]

Marty.

You need to install that optional baseball bat holder for the tunnel of your sled. Just take the bat out and give it a little swing as they pass you at 80 mph. I recommend an aluminum one. Less sting due to the vibration of the bat in the cold, plus that "ping" sound is pretty cool. :p

Really though. There is nothing more irritating to me than idiots like this. Problem is, most of them really cannot ride worth a darn, they just think they can.

I wish we had a solution that would work to fix this. Would make snowmobiling a lot more fun for the 95% of the rest of us.

-John

[radsrh]

Nature has a way of taking care of "some" of them, wish I had a dime for everyone of them I have seen come through the door after meeting a tree. For some it meens lots of work and an expensive trip in a helicopter and for others less work and a short trip.

[rakins800]

All spot on- for the last 10-12 years our group only rides during the week. Sunday is our travel day to the U.P. Then we get drunk at the cabin,and dont even unload till Monday morning. and by Friday at noon,when "qualifying" starts,we are generaly loading up,closing down shop,and getting ready for the fish fry at the Cozy Inn. Then head her home Saturday morning. We figure we've added ten yrs. to our lives by doing this.LOL

[jbammon68]

I recommend an aluminum one. Less sting due to the vibration of the bat in the cold, plus that "ping" sound is pretty cool. :p

-John

At those speeds a whiffle ball or Nerf bat would do the trick...less chance to come back around and bite the batter!

[xcr440]

Wow, just got back from a ride and was going to start a post just like this one.

BE CAREFUL OUT THERE PEOPLE!

My little incident with "Professional Trail Racers" goes like this.

Cruising along 60ish, and I can see 5 or 6 sleds coming at me from across a mile long field. So, its pretty obvious, stay right and tell your fellow riders behind you and the one guy coming at you how many of you there are.

Lead guy, waves, obviously not signalling 5+ sleds behind him. Second guy, same thing. Third guy, hands never left the bars.

As I'm cresting over a little knoll, and not much of one, I have just enough time to recognize that there are 2 more sleds coming at me in the snow dust of the third one I just went by. They are obviously giving it all they have, and I split them, literally go right between them. They were not more than 20 feet apart themselves. I did not have time to react had they been in my path, it would have been bad. You figure out how close that was. I slow down, look behind me at them and they never looked back, probably never let off the throttle. I thought about turning around to give them a piece of my mind, and some much needed advice, but figured I'll just be happy nothing bad happened. Not to mention, my piece of advice with 5 of them might have turned into a piece of my all alone azz on the trail. I'll avoid that too.

I actually feel lucky to be able to tell this story.

Moral of the story, these idiots need an education. But most importantly, because we can never get them to read posts like these, be aware of your surroundings, and do your best to avoid them all together.

[AlumaDoo]

and by Friday at noon,when "qualifying" starts,we are generaly loading up,closing down shop,and getting ready for the fish fry at the Cozy Inn.

I think I just peed my britches!!!! :D

well put

[dcfroe]

I agree Marty, I get to come up to the UP during the week (vacation time) so I try to avoid the "weekend warriors". You do not have to go fast to cover a lot of miles. Last year my brother and I covered 280 miles in a good day and never went over 65mph (and that was on trail 11 out of Silver City what I lovingly call the snowmobile interstate highway). We can drink in Illinois, we go north to enjoy the sport and wonder at God's creativity, stay out of the bars till the end of the day and ride.

I would like to make a suggestion though but don't know where to send it. It would be really nice if trails such as the Freda Loop were labeled 1 way. The tight twisties are fun but they can be dangerous if someone is speeding coming at you from the other direction. Sorry to hijack the post but wanted to share.

[trailshredder]

I think I just peed my britches!!!! :D

well put

Me too:) hahahaha

[r/l groomer]

These problems are everywhere.I think allot is education, from past snowmobile safety classes in our club most students and parents don't even know how the trail is installed or obtained through landowners, maintained, etc.
Also the manufactures of snowmobiles show films and pics. of unsafe, stunts for most riders, trail ridding on the wrong side, magazines also. All to sell the sport. Fast,Exciting,Adrenalin rush,off trail riding.etc.
Not to much is said for family riding.
We all make mistakes and we all hopefully learn from them. Myself and family have been dusted by passing sleds,but also have this happen and the last rider has stopped and was very sorry for what the first riders did and was going to talk to them and ask if the shoe was on the other foot scenario.
With all that happens our family loves the sport.
good luck in the UP.

Howie

[whitedust]

Not much you can do when oncoming traffic going too fast for conditions just hug the right below the picker brush. I caught 2 guys coming hard behind me in the twistys at the end of 107 picked up their shadows on a high berm before they could get into my mirrors so I just raised my arm ducked into the the deep stuff stopped then turned to look & they were already by me. I just pulled back out kept them out front & hauled *** behind them to Sidnaw. We both went into the Sidnaw Gas Station to fill up. I think they thought I was going to give them a hard time but instead kicked back & shot the **** with them about trail conditions where we both had been & where we both were going. We were both were going to ride 8w so I told them stay in front of me not behind me & all will be AOk. All & all they were decent guys just like to ride fast & hard on AC F1000s. I don't get passed often but when I do I try to make it as safe as possible for everyone. Oncoming racers just do what you can to give them room & avoid contact.

[84vette96]

I like to ride fast but hit the breaks or at least let off the gas when other riders are coming. The guys that don't are the reason for speed limits of 55 or less .

[rsvectordude]

And that's what separates the trail riders versus the off trail guys. I'm not condoning that type of riding but if you're holding people up at 60 get off the trail and let them go by. Nothing worse then being held up for miles by some stand up rider wearing a backpack with a shovel sticking out of the back throwing huge chunks of ice up with their paddle tracks either. Stay to right and everything should be fine. Side by side into a corner is the dumbest thing you can do with the number of sleds on the trails and I see it all the time too. It's just not going to be me doing it. And I refrain to talk to about the use of hand signals but most people shouldn't take their hands off the bars to even attempt it.

[zman20]

I agree with everyone. My problem was 2 weeks ago on trail #3 by twin lakes. Brought my 15 year old son to U.P. for first time, he got his first taste of a couple of these idiots. We were going 55 to 60, they came flying up behind him and passed going 80, scared the crap out of him and about made him fly into trees. I happened to turn around before they proceeded to pass me on a corner, they got the 1 finger salute on the way by. Hopefully they saw it. Everyone likes to fast once in awhile but use some common sense.

[eyeman]

No laughing please. My wife and I ride a two-up and she does not let me exceed 51mph if it's below 10 degrees or the wind is in our face. Anything faster and she says her head gets wiped around and she gets cold. Every so often I sneak a 90mph lake crossing if the wind is at our back and we've ridden the path earlier that day. She usually catches on and scolds me at the next stop. Just kidding. At 50mph we have been able to avoid several for sure head-ons with the "Professional Trail Racers". We have never had to hit the powder, but have had to nearly stop and watched the short sited "Racers" go into the woods as they cut back across to there side of the trail - no resulting injuries fortunately. To all the "Racers"; please ride at night when you can see headlights and we're not on the trails. Thanks.

[redbirds5]

Rakins800 - I agree wholeheartedly!!!
We do the exact same thing!

[yooper_man]

I do not understand how people can go that fast. I am perfectly happy going 40-50. Many 60 thru a feild. I know my limitation! When I come up to a stop sign. I let people pass me.

[arctiva]

Thats why a good share of the time we go to u.p or northern wis on a weekend we start rideing around 4am and generaly back by noon with our miles for the day.

While i do hate following a group for miles at 30 miles a hour because they dont look back needing to pass someone doing 60 is not needed in any situation. Mirriors should be law in all states for snowmobiles. Ive often thought about installin a air horn on the sled to let the 1's who wont look back know im there haha

[jdude]

This is the exact reason I sold my sleds 10 years ago and quit riding, I got tired of feeling like my life was in danger everytime i went to the U.P..
I have been thinking about getting back into it again recently but if I do I will only ride during the week. I hate to suggest more DNR patroling of the trails, but what are we going to do to make this sport safe again?

[rakins800]

I'll surely get a spankin for this idea,but...........raise the cost of ridership and increase the education process.
I'm the first one against increased fees and more mandates from the government,but I cant think of anything else that would do the trick.
Except for the baseball bat idea,which I've been considering alot more as of late..............

[mjkaliszak]

Learned to love " weekday riding " years ago while training my kids. There is no substitute for riding during the week vs weekend . A little respect goes a long way, too bad there seems to be less of it in the world now-a-days.

[Falcon20]

In agreement with all. For the first time in over a decade our upcoming trip of 5 days to the UP will occur with a weekend in the middle of our stay. Really not looking forward to those two days. Will we ride? Sure. But I think with our hearts in our throats at every turn while on a trail.

[Polarice]

I think riding during the week is the best option. My plans all revolve around leaving Wednesdays and arriving around 2 or in the evening. Possibly riding if the arrival is at 2 and just drinking if it's at night. Then riding Thursday and Friday. Possibly getting a ride in Saturday morning before all the "snow spitters" get up.

This way we have Saturday to go back home and Sunday to just relax.

There's a lot less moguls and you don't have to worry about seeing too many other people.

Stay safe and slow down for oncoming riders!

[saber1]

I got a little satisfaction last year on the trail to Lake in the clouds there were 3 of us just about a couple miles before the lake we were doing around 50 or so When a pack of 3 wanna be racers zipped by us at around 80mph all dressed to the t's in their best yammi racing gear then a half mile later we came across them in the middle of the trail with one Apex shoved under the other one and 2 guys trying to pull the sleds apart.Seemed like one guy stopped too fast and the other sled just rear ended him.Pricless.

[polarisrider1]

All spot on- for the last 10-12 years our group only rides during the week. Sunday is our travel day to the U.P. Then we get drunk at the cabin,and dont even unload till Monday morning. and by Friday at noon,when "qualifying" starts,we are generaly loading up,closing down shop,and getting ready for the fish fry at the Cozy Inn. Then head her home Saturday morning. We figure we've added ten yrs. to our lives by doing this.LOL

very true. only difference is we do fish fry at NA-TA-KA

[AlumaDoo]

I got a little satisfaction last year on the trail to Lake in the clouds there were 3 of us just about a couple miles before the lake we were doing around 50 or so When a pack of 3 wanna be racers zipped by us at around 80mph all dressed to the t's in their best yammi racing gear then a half mile later we came across them in the middle of the trail with one Apex shoved under the other one and 2 guys trying to pull the sleds apart.Seemed like one guy stopped too fast and the other sled just rear ended him.Pricless.

LOL...where's the helmet cam when ya need it?

[polarisrider1]

And that's what separates the trail riders versus the off trail guys. I'm not condoning that type of riding but if you're holding people up at 60 get off the trail and let them go by. Nothing worse then being held up for miles by some stand up rider wearing a backpack with a shovel sticking out of the back throwing huge chunks of ice up with their paddle tracks either. Stay to right and everything should be fine. Side by side into a corner is the dumbest thing you can do with the number of sleds on the trails and I see it all the time too. It's just not going to be me doing it. And I refrain to talk to about the use of hand signals but most people shouldn't take their hands off the bars to even attempt it.

That does not seperate anything. Whats a backpack with a shovel have to do with any of this topic? 60mph plus on a 6-7' wide trail lined with trees spells eventual disaster no matter who is running down it. Been there done that.

[indy_500]

"Ride real. Ride hard. Ride real hard." -Meisha Johnson :D

[skiroule]

Oh Boy,
This thread is probably going to generate some volume. I think most riders have had close calls and it’s amazing that there aren’t more fatalities when you have machines passing each other 18” apart at a combined speed of 120 mph+.
I have largely abandoned weekend riding in the U.P. as well but I have to say that most of the riders I meet on the trail there appear to be quite safety conscious. However, because there are the exceptions to this, I no longer encourage my son to go riding with me due to safety concerns and my wife quit riding two years ago. As she puts it, “it isn’t worth dying for”. It’s kind of sad to say but I would not consider snowmobiling a family activity in many areas any more.
As one of the posts pointed out, it doesn’t help that the snowmobiling public is inundated with promotion of the concept of “flash and fast”, from machines to clothing to accessories to videos. I think a second contributor is a fairly prevalent view that the quality of a trail ride is measured in miles. If one can’t blast through the forest at 80 – 100 feet per second, it’s tough to rack up legendary miles.
While speed may be a factor in a lot of these encounters, by itself it is probably not the enemy. The real culprit seems to be a lack of judgment, consideration, and anticipation. This combination makes for a dangerous cocktail.

[Cat600]

I had a sneak attack last year by a group of trail racers. I just pulled up to a stop sign on a trail, stopped, looked both ways, and was about to hit the gas to go, when about 4 or 5 guys on some M800's came just blazing by me, no stopping, no looking, nothing. Never even saw them in my mirrors as I approached the stop sign, so I have no idea where they even came from.

[90s]

I echo all the above comments, if these "proffesional trail racers" think they are a hot driver and their sled is so fast, why don't they take it to one of the race tracks. What happened to me this weekend takes the cake. I'm riding down a wide logging road just starting to come up a hill, a sled crests the hill somewhat on my side, I move over as far as I could, what comes over the hill next is a guy on a snow board being towed by the snowmobile, if I had not moved over, there would have been an incident. Granted, this was not on a funded trail, but some common sense should prevail. I wished I had the answer for the wannabe racer, if they just used some common sense when they are passing and in the corners. They give the impression that the trail is theirs and everyone else be damned.

[no1_pro]

That does not seperate anything. Whats a backpack with a shovel have to do with any of this topic? 60mph plus on a 6-7' wide trail lined with trees spells eventual disaster no matter who is running down it. Been there done that.

Backpack with a shovel. Cracks me up when the garden tools come up. :D

Pro

[superski]

I quit riding weekends a couple yeras ago when I retired. I just can't get over the number of rude, inconsiderate, stupid people who don't at least slow down when meeting on comming sled traffic - like a couple seconds is going to make such a big differebce in where they are going. I quit riding for about 10 years because the group I rode with just got too into the "bigger faster" idea, and "we put on 250 mile" thing. When my wife and I got back into it i decided to slow down and enjoy the experience. My rule now is if I can't ride one handed then I'm going too fast. I do keep a close watch on my mirrors and let sleds that catch us pass as soon as I can, but have had people pass me at speeds where you can't even tell what they are riding - seen some of those people wrecked also further up the trail - I won't even stop to help these idiots anymore either. I know it's fun to ride fast, but it can be done safely and with some consideration for other riders and without beating the crap out of the trails. Ya ever run into groups who bitch about rough trails and then blow out every corner they come to ? I agree the industry ads,videos, and mags foster a lot of this showing riders blasting WFO. We wonder why trails get closed, but we all see tracks off the trail in posted areas, I see a good number of used sleds listed with "cans" when for the most part all they do is make more noise and reduce performance and piss people off.
Please people use your heads and be considerate to other riders, trail groomers, and property owners it will make everyone's experience in the sport more enjoyable and safe. OK done with my rant

[dlange]

I agree with all the above. This was the first year with me riding with the fiance along for the week on her own sled, and wow does that change everything. I could not imagine calling her parents if something bad happened. I gives a person a whole new perspective when meeting sleds doing 70-80 mph on trails.

[xcsp]

For some reason these "professional trail racers" feel it a right to ride as they wish, with no consideration for others, probably the same type of people who buy a sport bike that has more power than they could handle, heck a new 600cc sport bike has more power than most people could handle, and for some reason feel to ride fast whenever and wherever. Sooner or later they'll find out the hard way, I just don't want to be involved with their "incident".

They probably never even think about the consequences, if something happens out sledding, usually in remote areas, help usually doesn't arrive in a minute-I dread the day I or my riding partners would need medical assistance out on the trail, especially when in unfamiliar areas.

Unfortunately, so far this season the good snow cover is limited to a smaller area, which means more sleds in a concentrated area, and some people may feel they need to hit it hard and get some major miles on in a hurry-what's the rush?

For some, riding during the week isn't possbible, why should we need to put up with the "boy racers"?

I highly doubt any education or higher fees of any sort will help the guys who ride reckless.

Ride smart & defensively, stay alert and be ready for the unexpected at any time!!

[snopro1]

I agree that it can be scary when someone passes you at 85 without notice, but how about looking behind you from time to time and seeing if someone is coming up on you? I never ride the trails for the same reason everyone stated, but also realize that I need to keep my head on a swivel and not just settle in for the long ride without looking around a bit for hazards.

[olsmann]

This is amazing! I just sat down to write almost the exact same thread! Only my expierence was from the twin lakes area this sat but almost a mirror images of stories. Told my wife at krupps while getting gas that i didnt even want to ride any more.

Oh and to the 3 seperate groups the got the middle finger from a guy on a blue summit on sat afternoon in the twin lakes/mass city area, Please feel free to PM me. I would LOVE to chat with you.

[olsmann]

Oh and us stand up riders with the back pack and shovel are carring that stuff so we can get OFF the trail and away from the ricky racers.

[dekx]

And people wonder why I only ride during the week , this is why

I second this, i stay away from the "weekend warriors" that go up Fri-Sun...and go Mon-Fri

[Firecatguy]

lol....where the guy who is chasing people down and giving a beating???

darn stand up riders what are they thinking????do you guys think the trail racers are racing from Bar to Bar???I wounder what they run for oil??

[zr580]

weekday riding is best by far

[wolfriver]

Not much you can do when oncoming traffic going too fast for conditions just hug the right below the picker brush. I caught 2 guys coming hard behind me in the twistys at the end of 107 picked up their shadows on a high berm before they could get into my mirrors so I just raised my arm ducked into the the deep stuff stopped then turned to look & they were already by me. I just pulled back out kept them out front & hauled *** behind them to Sidnaw. We both went into the Sidnaw Gas Station to fill up. I think they thought I was going to give them a hard time but instead kicked back & shot the **** with them about trail conditions where we both had been & where we both were going. We were both were going to ride 8w so I told them stay in front of me not behind me & all will be AOk. All & all they were decent guys just like to ride fast & hard on AC F1000s. I don't get passed often but when I do I try to make it as safe as possible for everyone. Oncoming racers just do what you can to give them room & avoid contact.

did you not just complain about a slow rider about a week or so ago in your post, I think you said he would not pull over so you just pinned it and passed him. kind of ironic isn't it.

[ranlam]

Trail riders should have mirrors, back country riders should have a back pack and a shovel, those of us in between.....should carry clubs.LOL. The funny thing is I do have a club on my sled but it is for reinforcing the back bumper cause it was broke in half. Yes I yooperized it. If I used it to chase "PTR" down and club em, Id either be in jail or beat up.LOL. What do you expect when you mix testoterone , 150HP, no brains, and or alcohol. Be careful out there, your family loves you. Oh and stay off the trail next Saturday cause I plan to ride to the hill climb.

[toddspolaris]

Snow dust kills and trees are hard. Slow down people.

[rsvectordude]

That does not seperate anything. Whats a backpack with a shovel have to do with any of this topic? 60mph plus on a 6-7' wide trail lined with trees spells eventual disaster no matter who is running down it. Been there done that.


The back pack and shovel comes in because they are usually the same idiots going on and off the trail on powerlines and gaslines where technically they aren't supposed to be riding anyway..Ask any power company their thoughts on allowing snowmobiles on their easements. I'm sure we'll see a bad t-bone at one of these crossings in the future and it's going to be ugly.And I don't know of too many 6' to 7' wide trails out there. A groomer wouldn't even fit down that.

[snobuilder]

i catch up to slower riders 90% of the time and try to pass respectfully ..... the other 10% of the time I pull over when someone wants to play though.
I ride this way because I try to imagine I am standing face to face with the other person, and think about how I would be treating them in that situation........that makes the choice to be civil an easy one.

BUT PPL,....please don't be a trail cop.....either get some mirrors or learn to turn you head and look back once in a while.......and if you have mirrors don't look back at me and move left so I cannot pass you,....at that point you become the problem,.....not because you are a slower rider,.....but because you seem to be wanting to control MY riding style.

[mride460]

I'm not condoning that type of riding but if you're holding people up let them go by. Stay to right and everything should be fine. Side by side into a corner is the dumbest thing you can do with the number of sleds on the trails and I see it all the time too. It's just not going to be me doing it. And I refrain to talk to about the use of hand signals but most people shouldn't take their hands off the bars to even attempt it.

X2!! I'll ride as fast as I darn well please.. I keep my hands on the bars and I am respectful of all other riders on the trail and off.

To each their own on the on / off trail thing and the backpacks and shovels...

[mride460]

"Ride real. Ride hard. Ride real hard." -Meisha Johnson :D

Good one!! or "Ride your ride, I'll ride mine, and let everyone else ride thiers!!" - Me

[trailblazer]

Just a last thought from me, if someday you go by a black Skidoo and you do not slow down and be respectful on the trail or in the corners, don't be suprised when you wake up off your sled on the side of the trail. It was just Trailblazer taking his club and knocking you out for awhile. Maybe this will fix the problem?

[srt20]

Gotta love all the "internet tough guys" that talk all big and tell everyone what their gonna do with their clubs.......haha

[grub]

So tell me then - is it safer to ride 3 seconds behind the leader? You are then 'in the dust'. The only one in your group that can see anything is the leader. If you ride close to each other you can all see what is happening. If you are a group of 10 strung out over 1 mile you have 10 potential crashes. You have 10 leaders. If you have a group of 10 strung out over a mile the people in front have no idea have no idea that some faster sleds are behind. And if you do try to pass a slow group of 10 one by one it gets frustrating for both sides. I have always ridden fast. I have ridden fast alone and in groups. When I meet people coming at me I always expect the worst. Slow riders, fast riders it doesn't matter. You always have to ride defensively, period. When I pass people on the trail I try to always be respectful and safe. I have never wrecked anyone. The last sled I trashed was an '86 Indy and I managed that all by myself with no other sleds involved. We all have to share the same trail. Fast, slow, young, old, Trail Racers, Families on a cruise. You can get killed every time you go out. It has always been this way. Stay alert, drive defensively and have some respect for others. If you do those 3 things you can ride as fast or slow as you want.

[yooper_man]

I turn and look behind at every stop sign! If I am by my self, I let the people comming from both directions pass. I have bad side vision. So that's why I do this. When I am in a group, I usually ride close to the back. I know I am not the fastest ridder. Then again the sled I have probably won't even do 80. I wouldn't want to go that fast even if I could.

[gogebic_sledder]

Unfortunately I ride on the weekends due to work. I don't mind so much if someone passes me at a high rate of speed, my biggest concern is never knowing what to expect coming around a turn. It seems to me everyday I ride I have a close call with some #$%hole, driving on MY side of the trail and way to fast. Like most of you I've had some close ones. I never let my wife lead. When I'm w/my buddies we usually are riding pretty quick, I don't know if were racers, but we ride agressively at NIGHT. Its much safer we see oncoming lights and slow down. Riding too fast during daylight is asking for trouble.

[kamikaze_bros]

The back pack and shovel comes in because they are usually the same idiots going on and off the trail on powerlines and gaslines where technically they aren't supposed to be riding anyway..Ask any power company their thoughts on allowing snowmobiles on their easements. I'm sure we'll see a bad t-bone at one of these crossings in the future and it's going to be ugly.And I don't know of too many 6' to 7' wide trails out there. A groomer wouldn't even fit down that.

rsvectordude,

What specific technicality are you aware of that prohibits snowmobilers or anybody for that matter from accessing and using a public utility easement? The easements used by the public utilities for the delivery of their product (Gas, Electric, Phone, Cable, ect..) are on property owned by others. If these utilities owned the property, they wouldn't need an easement for access. The residing jurisdiction of an easement identifies the use and access within in it's boundaries, not the people utilizing.

[snow_monkey]

The only thing I had to look out for on Saturday was tree branches and the snow rooster coming from polaris 1's paddle track!!

[Firecatguy]

lol....where the guy who is chasing people down and giving a beating???

darn stand up riders what are they thinking????do you guys think the trail racers are racing from Bar to Bar???I wounder what they run for oil??

aaaaaaaaand We have A winner!!!!!Lol....go get em!!!!!same thread as 06,07,08,09,10 and now 2011.........


Just a last thought from me, if someday you go by a black Skidoo and you do not slow down and be respectful on the trail or in the corners, don't be suprised when you wake up off your sled on the side of the trail. It was just Trailblazer taking his club and knocking you out for awhile. Maybe this will fix the problem?

[1-snowbullet]

Yaaaa This is way to interesting . Only Reason most of them are going slow or Super fast is to get to the next bar and see who is buying the next round !! Ive noticed that MOST NOT ALL riders are D.W.I. riding .. I myself made a pledge to the D.N.R. Here in WI. to stay sober when riding my snowmobile (( I even got a T-shirt And some Stickers and they took my Pic.)) !! I wish Some people out there would do the same .. As for the Statment racer -x Im 46 years old been Sledding for 40 of the 46 years and pretty darn good at it .. I can run at 10mph-125mph and exist with my souroundings . as for long hall traveling i run at 60 mph most times unless i get behind the person who is so full of ALCOHOL then i let them lead So me and my riding crew can Pick up The pices And call a Ambulance or Two . Respect is the Key Here . There are times when you want to take your boot and kick the rider off his sled comming at you or ?? but whats that going to solve ?? NOthing In my book !! Another Big key In my Book --Snowmobile Education Handsignals The right Away .. You can shure tell a newbee rider from a seasoned VET the newbee wont use there hand signals and basicly take up the whole darn trail even when they are comming at you !! In most cases be the First to be wining about how people are driving and how rough the trails are !! Good Night All Racer-X gone !!

[polarisrider1]

The only thing I had to look out for on Saturday was tree branches and the snow rooster coming from polaris 1's paddle track!!

Sorry, forgot about the rooster tail. Hope you had fun. Snow could of been better. I did my best to keep you off the groomed trails. Right at the start of the day we had Ricky Racers barreling at us. We probable could of used my saw a few times on the forest roads.

[polarisrider1]

X2!! I'll ride as fast as I darn well please.. I keep my hands on the bars and I am respectful of all other riders on the trail and off.

To each their own on the on / off trail thing and the backpacks and shovels...

Thank you. I just couldn't edit my response enough to say what you said.

[cat_man_mike]

I know everyone (as do I) hates the idea of regulation. But, with the speeds and cornering capability of the sleds nowadays that make some riders feel like superman, I think it is time for snowmobiling licences. Make everyone take the saftey course (As most of us should anyway at some point in our early riding days) and give them a licence. If you cause an accident by being drunk or going too fast or riding recklessly, your licence is gone. If you get cought riding on a revoked licence, your sled is gone. It is not right that some of us are getting pushed out of the sport because we fear for our lives.

[mride460]

I know everyone (as do I) hates the idea of regulation. But, with the speeds and cornering capability of the sleds nowadays that make some riders feel like superman, I think it is time for snowmobiling licences. Make everyone take the saftey course (As most of us should anyway at some point in our early riding days) and give them a licence. If you cause an accident by being drunk or going too fast or riding recklessly, your licence is gone. If you get cought riding on a revoked licence, your sled is gone. It is not right that some of us are getting pushed out of the sport because we fear for our lives.

Not a bad idea, but I think the law as it is, here in MI, would be fine if there were more patrols out on the trails. You have to be 16 or 18 and have a drivers license to be on the trail without your parents. If you get ticketed for ANY infraction on the trail, it goes on your driving record and reflects on your car insurance. If you are snowmobiling drunk and get caught, it is the same as driving a car. Now MI even has the "super drunk" law that has even more drastic fines and punishments related to it. The laws are there, they just need to be enforced better. IMO

[polarisrider1]

The manufacturer ads are of no help in keeping the trails safe. I used to be a Ricky racer, (didn't see anything but rapid sled depreciation) how else can a guy from Michigan rack up 4500 miles a season yr. after yr.. Then I got older and decided that my days are truly numbered, and the numbers left are decreasing at a rapid rate. No sense in speeding up the dieing process.

Cat ad: "See how the world's fastest sleds put the finish line closer than ever". Polaris ad: "It's not all about beating your buddy. Actually, that's exactly what it's all about". Goodyear belts: "Eat up the trail". FXR: "Full throttle Addiction". "Castle Racing". "TeamFast". The list goes on forever, all geared to Joe Rocket and Ricky racer.

Canada has a 35 mph speed limit on their trails, because of the outrage of all the deaths, liability and a socialistic health care program. This can easily be done to us with a swipe of a pen in Lansing if we don't police our selfs better. I already know of 2 trails with 35 mph speed limits in MI.

[t_man]

I know everyone (as do I) hates the idea of regulation. But, with the speeds and cornering capability of the sleds nowadays that make some riders feel like superman, I think it is time for snowmobiling licences. Make everyone take the saftey course (As most of us should anyway at some point in our early riding days) and give them a licence. If you cause an accident by being drunk or going too fast or riding recklessly, your licence is gone. If you get cought riding on a revoked licence, your sled is gone. It is not right that some of us are getting pushed out of the sport because we fear for our lives.

More regulation won't solve this problem.

Grub said it best:

"Stay alert, drive defensively and have some respect for others."

Regulation won't make any of these things happen. We've all got drivers licenses and we see idiot drivers every day. Most sledders ride safely and appropriately, but the minority violators are the problem. This is true in most any activity / society.

More regulation would create a huge bureaucracy with huge costs. Who would pay for it? We would. What would the impact be on the problem? Minimal. This would push as many out of the sport as are already being pushed out. This is already an expensive sport with a lot of inconveniences.

What should we do?

* Set a good example for others. (How you ride, club membership, etc.)

* Expect / push the DNR to enforce the existing regulations. (And in a reasonable way - see the DNR posting)

* Try to influence others, in a positive way, to ride responsibly. This will have the biggest impact. If it comes down to it, refuse to ride with others that ride irresponsibly.

That's my 2 cents. Off my soap box for now.

[84vette96]

polarisrider makes a great point. Police our self or the gov will do it for us. That means more money out of our pockets. They have to pay for trail cops somehow, and tickets is how they will do it. After getting all the fast riders they will find new tickets to hand out.

[cuzzinolaf]

Off-trail AND trail riding is dangerous. Everyone should just stay home or stick to speed runs on the lakes. This thread is hilarious!

I wonder how much professional trail riders get paid? I didn't know there was such a job.

[cuzzinolaf]

And that's what separates the trail riders versus the off trail guys. I'm not condoning that type of riding but if you're holding people up at 60 get off the trail and let them go by. Nothing worse then being held up for miles by some stand up rider wearing a backpack with a shovel sticking out of the back throwing huge chunks of ice up with their paddle tracks either. Stay to right and everything should be fine. Side by side into a corner is the dumbest thing you can do with the number of sleds on the trails and I see it all the time too. It's just not going to be me doing it. And I refrain to talk to about the use of hand signals but most people shouldn't take their hands off the bars to even attempt it.


The back pack and shovel comes in because they are usually the same idiots going on and off the trail on powerlines and gaslines where technically they aren't supposed to be riding anyway..Ask any power company their thoughts on allowing snowmobiles on their easements. I'm sure we'll see a bad t-bone at one of these crossings in the future and it's going to be ugly.And I don't know of too many 6' to 7' wide trails out there. A groomer wouldn't even fit down that.

Really? So you're saying that I cruise down the trail at 60mph, standing, with my back pack and throw ice chunks at you? I guess I can respond and ask if you're rushing to the next bar for a beer and live by the motto "the more I drink the straighter the trail gets". You need to stop with the stereotypes and get a clue.

Why can't we ride the powerlines if we want? The electric companies don't own them so who cares what the powerline company says. :confused:

[cat_man_mike]

T man, in a perfect world you would be spot on. Set a good example and be a leader by doing the right thing and people should follow. Unfortunately that is not the case. There are those out there who don't care and do whatever they want anyway. If "socal darwinism" would take care of the problem, there would be no need for action. But, unforunately innocent people get hurt every year by the trail drunks and Johny Rockets. At the very least there are people who have loved the sport and been responsable getting out because they no longer feel safe on the trails. This is unaceptable.

[grub]

A few very simple rules would solve a lot of problems. Designate heavy travel trails one way trails on weekends during daylight hours. Put up signs every five miles that say 'Check behind you NOW for faster traffic.' What am I saying??? - People can't seem to follow the few and simple rules we already have. Nevermind.

[united]

Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? -George Carlin

[rsvectordude]

rsvectordude,

What specific technicality are you aware of that prohibits snowmobilers or anybody for that matter from accessing and using a public utility easement? The easements used by the public utilities for the delivery of their product (Gas, Electric, Phone, Cable, ect..) are on property owned by others. If these utilities owned the property, they wouldn't need an easement for access. The residing jurisdiction of an easement identifies the use and access within in it's boundaries, not the people utilizing.

The companies are carrying the extra liability for these easements. I.E. Someone flying off the top of a hill and crashing into one of the poles. Both landowner and utility company will be sued. The gas companies are complaining trail use by both snowmobiles and wheelers are eroding the minimum required cover over the gas lines.

[zr580]

polarisrider is spot on,the manufactures are no help
what do they think will happen when they advertise a 150 hp high performance trail sled as the fastest sled on the trail,well they are going to try and prove it,to top it off most are newbies to sledding.
Iam 46 yrs old been sledding since 12 i ride a f-7,is it fast yes,does it handle yes,do i like to ride aggressive when the trail permits yes.do i always finish first NO.
Because you just have to use common sense,i get scared to death when i ride in the lower way to much traffic had my skis clipped plenty of times,and i cant count the number of times ive been looking at a oncoming sled sideways taking up the whole trail.
The thing i like most about sledding is seeing is parents out with the kids teaching them to ride responsible does this old man good,not to mention 99.9 percent of the people i meet will stop and help if need be,sleders are a great group people.
that being said thank you for your time.

[polarisrider1]

Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? -George Carlin

Ain't that the truth. I miss George. The power company in my neck of the woods loves the snowmobilers and so do the loggers. They say we help hold down the brush growth and it saves them money on clearing. Snowmobiles causing erosion? now thats a new one. spitting leaves is not erosion. A cross country skier (they love our flat groomed trails) causes more erosion kicking snow off there boots.

[arctic]

There's bad apples everywhere. When it becomes a problem, DNR need to show their faces a little more often and really set an example for bad behavior like that described. There's plenty of lakes out there for bragging rights. And ****, if I could ride during the week I would! Stupid work!!!

[catalac]

It does get pretty crazy out there on the weekends. I don't think I would even take my kids trail riding on weekends up north. I tell ya, the guys that have the race pipes on there sled, scare the crap out of ya, when they braap by you. You go, snocrosser x!

[cobalt_502]

The only real solution is snow, if the trails are great in WI., lower MI., IL. and MN. it spreads the riders out. I will say of all the trails we have ridden in the entire Midwest the most dangerous so far have been within a 50 mile radius of Twin Lakes, so many close calls it isn't even close! We have a group of six heading up Thursday to BC for the weekend and I'm extremely nervous about this trip!

[michaeladams]

hey,keep quiet about riding during the week.let these people stay weekend warriors.i don't want them there duringthe week during daylight hours.

[kamikaze_bros]

The companies are carrying the extra liability for these easements. I.E. Someone flying off the top of a hill and crashing into one of the poles. Both landowner and utility company will be sued. The gas companies are complaining trail use by both snowmobiles and wheelers are eroding the minimum required cover over the gas lines.

rsvectordude,


The utilities all carry liability insurance. However, none of it is consider as an "Extra". Their premiums are based solely upon several actuarial equations that identify the company's exposures and liabilities. Power lines have been around for about as long as electric power, so I highly doubt that the people writing the policy would have over looked this particular item (the poles and lines) and then tact it on as an extra. The entire utility grid (gas, electric, phone and cable) is almost entirely distributed through easement property right down to the lines that run into your house.

“I.E. Someone flying off the top of a hill and crashing into one of the poles.”

What if this same guy flies over a hill and crash into your house, or hits a tree in your yard or bounces off of your car or hits a big snow drift in your neighbors yard and shoots up into the air and misses the power pole but still manages to hit the power lines? Based upon what you've written, the responsibility of all the damages done to your home and property is yours. However in reality this clown is still responsible for the damages he did regardless if it's a utility pole or your house.

Williams Pipe Line monitors their system continuously. The system is looked at by land and air and they also use satellite imaginary on top of that it is also monitored electronically with a systems of sensors. I highly doubt that there's much concerned regarding any erosion created by snowmobile actively. Once the ground freezes it pretty hard for anything to erode. Granted, in most years the Yoop doesn't get much if any frost in areas with snow cover. But the rest of us sure do.

As far as the wheelers go the only noticeable erosion I've seen has been pretty much in areas dedicated to 4 wheel'in. If the minimum amount of ground cover over a gas line has been compromised by 4 wheeler ruts my guess it that most if not all of the damage could be fixed with a rake and shovel in about 10 minutes.

[snobuilder]

There's bad apples everywhere. When it becomes a problem, DNR need to show their faces a little more often and really set an example for bad behavior like that described. There's plenty of lakes out there for bragging rights. And ****, if I could ride during the week I would! Stupid work!!!


the trail bullies understand that its the wild west out there,....very few witnesses to the efed up behavior,....thats what encourages there bad act,....scare and run is what they specialize in.....I just think of alll the families and newbies that get turned off by these bozos, but that would fit in with there self serving thought process where its all about THEM and THERE enjoyment,....the rest beware or be damnned.

[grub]

Perhaps this is being approached all wrong. Instead of harping about the evil drunks riding fast maybe we should be encouraging it. You know, kind of help Natural Selection on a little bit. The new rules will be as folllows : Nobody will permitted to operate a snowmobile from noon on Fridays till sundown on Sundays unless they are legally intoxicated. Furthermore no snowmobiler can operate any snowmobile during these hours unless it is rated at 130 or more horsepower. All the DNR officers that can be mustered will be in force at every trailhead to enforce these new rules. Any rider that approaches will be stopped and required to blow into a breathalizer machine. If not adequately intoxicated the rider will not be allowed to proceed. The DNR will provide intoxicating beverages to get the rider up to prescribed levels. At that time the rider may continue on with the encouragement of 'Hank's Bar is giving away free booze 20 miles up the trail. Ride that thing!' Spectators could gather at known dangerous spots along the way to revel in the carnage. After about 3 seasons of this most of the bad element will be gone.

[snowhawg]

Marty,

Thanks for starting this thread. Everything each of you has said is right on. I can only hope that the "professional trail racers" read these, but I guess that's hoping for too much. With all the safe time and miles to go fast, why in God's name can't they slow down for 30 seconds when there are sleds approaching or when passing????????

I like many of you only ride during the week. Unfortunately, some of my riding buddies can only go up for a long weekend, meaning that if I ride with them, I have to ride on a weekend. This coming weekend is one of them. We're riding from Land O' Lakes to Copper Harbor on Friday and back on Saturday. I think I'll let one of our weekend boys do all the leading this time.

Say a prayer for me!

Bob

[samc]

same thread as 06,07,08,09,10 and now 2011.........
Yep! LOL

[kamikaze_bros]

I think it's very unfortunately that there isn't a legal way to measure or test a persons common sense and common courtesy and then impose restrictions based upon the outcome of the test of those that failed.

This entire thread really boils down to those two very simple things, Common Sense and Common Courtesy.

[catspaz8]

I can understand most of the gripes and will move over to let groups by when I am riding with my family, as we carry a much slower pace than I would with my buds. When I ride with the guy's, we ride hard and exceed 60-80 mph's regularly. When we come up on a slower group, we will fall in behind them until they either come to the next stop, see us and let us go by, or will pass them slowly if they wave us by. What makes me crazy is when you get behind a group going 40-45 mph and the last guy is doing the weave from one side of the trail to the other, and never look back, or have mirrors and never use them. There are times and places you can open it up, but stay on you side of center, never in the middle or wrong side, especially cresting hills and coming through a corner. I have actually come to blows with a few of these jockey's on two ocassions, but I am little crazy and not the guy you want to do this to, plus I had back up.

[wisyooper1]

Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? -George Carlin

ain't that the truth!! LOL!!

[superski]

"The trouble with common sense is - it ain't all that common"

[catalac]

Ha, I like that idea Grub. Good one.

[kamikaze_bros]

Perhaps this is being approached all wrong. Instead of harping about the evil drunks riding fast maybe we should be encouraging it. You know, kind of help Natural Selection on a little bit. The new rules will be as folllows : Nobody will permitted to operate a snowmobile from noon on Fridays till sundown on Sundays unless they are legally intoxicated. Furthermore no snowmobiler can operate any snowmobile during these hours unless it is rated at 130 or more horsepower. All the DNR officers that can be mustered will be in force at every trailhead to enforce these new rules. Any rider that approaches will be stopped and required to blow into a breathalizer machine. If not adequately intoxicated the rider will not be allowed to proceed. The DNR will provide intoxicating beverages to get the rider up to prescribed levels. At that time the rider may continue on with the encouragement of 'Hank's Bar is giving away free booze 20 miles up the trail. Ride that thing!' Spectators could gather at known dangerous spots along the way to revel in the carnage. After about 3 seasons of this most of the bad element will be gone.

Grub,

Best solution I've seen yet. I think you're on to something.

[legend02]

I can understand most of the gripes and will move over to let groups by when I am riding with my family, as we carry a much slower pace than I would with my buds. When I ride with the guy's, we ride hard and exceed 60-80 mph's regularly. When we come up on a slower group, we will fall in behind them until they either come to the next stop, see us and let us go by, or will pass them slowly if they wave us by. What makes me crazy is when you get behind a group going 40-45 mph and the last guy is doing the weave from one side of the trail to the other, and never look back, or have mirrors and never use them. There are times and places you can open it up, but stay on you side of center, never in the middle or wrong side, especially cresting hills and coming through a corner. I have actually come to blows with a few of these jockey's on two ocassions, but I am little crazy and not the guy you want to do this to, plus I had back up.

That is basically the way I ride catspaz8, I have a buddy that has gotten hit twice by a guy on the wrong side of the trail. As for the weavers that aren't paying attention, I sometimes have to pass them just to get their attention. I try not to be an A$$.

[cat_man_mike]

Unfortuantely, all the DNR in the state on the trail at the same time will never be enough to catch all the idiots when they are doing idiotic things. The only time they get punished is when it is too late and some innocent rider is lying next to his wrecked sled bleeding. And even then, if Johnny Rocket is not drunk, just a jerk, he gets a slap on the wrist ticket and goes on to cause more trouble. There needs to be stiffer penalties for wreckless riding.

[grub]

This is a situation that lasts about 2 months. You are dreaming if you think the DNR or anybody else is going to pay any more attention to it than what they already are. In my experience of 35 years slower inattentive riders are a lot more dangerous than fast riders. Live with it or stay home on your couch where it is nice and safe.

[rakins800]

That a boy GRUB........the old "pack sand" attitude.......nice.

[russholio]

I haven't been riding all that long compared to some (about 17 years), but I can honestly say I've never been endangered by slower riders. If the definition of "inattentive" is those who ride slow and don't look back to see who's behind them, I've never been endangered by them, either. Inconvenienced for a short time maybe, but never endangered. But I've been run off the trail plenty of times (and hit once) by Ricky Racer.

[grub]

That a boy GRUB........the old "pack sand" attitude.......nice.

Just my observations. About 150000 miles worth.

[Marty P]

I haven't been riding all that long compared to some (about 17 years), but I can honestly say I've never been endangered by slower riders. If the definition of "inattentive" is those who ride slow and don't look back to see who's behind them, I've never been endangered by them, either. Inconvenienced for a short time maybe, but never endangered. But I've been run off the trail plenty of times (and hit once) by Ricky Racer.

I like that, well said…

[sixball]

I think we should all carry paint ball guns. It would be very obvious who is a jerk on the trail. Just think stop for lunch and

1 hit you may have made a stupid mistake.
2 hits you may want to think about your riding stile.
3 hits you are likely not riding with concerns for anyone.
4 hits Just stay at the bar and drink beer maybe talk sledding.
If your dripping the cops just hall you off.

[Marty P]

"Demographics" of a snowmobiler...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man-o-pause

A mental condition typically found in men in their early 40’s to late 50's brought on by the realization that old age is just around the corner. Symptoms include: frequent reminiscing about the “good ol’ days”, cranky judgmental attitude and a closed minded approach to anything new. Usually punctuated by the chronic need to play on a snowmobile and vote republican. The condition is difficult to cure and almost always progresses into old-timers disease.

Other symptoms include hatching plans for giving up his sales job, while taking all his savings to move to the U.P. and ride all day. He may have shaved his head, bought a snowmobile and acquired an 18-year old girlfriend?

If asked what's wrong, you will not be enlightened by his replies (remember the cranky judgmental attitude and close minded approach to anything new). He might say he doesn't know, or that he's just not satisfied with his life; now that the kids are grown he wants to toss the 6 passenger vehicle and buy a sports car, a snowmobile and a big truck and trailer to pull around. He doesn't know what's wrong, he just feels different, and only some big dramatic change can fix it.

If he would, or could, tell you what's wrong, you might be able to trace this odd behavior back to a time when he stood in front of a mirror and thought: "I'm 40 (or 45 or 55) and my time is limited. Eventually I'll die, but have I really lived? There are so many things I want to try, to do..." And he decides right there and then that he'll start, right now, he won't let another day slip by without catching up. The next thing you know, he's bought a hairpiece that looks like road kill on him, signed up at the gym, and bought a new snowmobile, truck and trailer.

And you wonder why we all can't get along...

[xcr440]

If only 5% of the "Professional Trail Racers" read a post like this, we might, *MIGHT* see some change.

As stated before, it will take one of them taking out someone "innocent" before their behavior will change on the trails.

[mulchatna]

"Demographics" of a snowmobiler...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man-o-pause

A mental condition typically found in men in their early 40’s to late 50's brought on by the realization that old age is just around the corner. Symptoms include: frequent reminiscing about the “good ol’ days”, cranky judgmental attitude and a closed minded approach to anything new. Usually punctuated by the chronic need to play on a snowmobile and vote republican. The condition is difficult to cure and almost always progresses into old-timers disease.

Other symptoms include hatching plans for giving up his sales job, while taking all his savings to move to the U.P. and ride all day. He may have shaved his head, bought a snowmobile and acquired an 18-year old girlfriend?

If asked what's wrong, you will not be enlightened by his replies (remember the cranky judgmental attitude and close minded approach to anything new). He might say he doesn't know, or that he's just not satisfied with his life; now that the kids are grown he wants to toss the 6 passenger vehicle and buy a sports car, a snowmobile and a big truck and trailer to pull around. He doesn't know what's wrong, he just feels different, and only some big dramatic change can fix it.

If he would, or could, tell you what's wrong, you might be able to trace this odd behavior back to a time when he stood in front of a mirror and thought: "I'm 40 (or 45 or 55) and my time is limited. Eventually I'll die, but have I really lived? There are so many things I want to try, to do..." And he decides right there and then that he'll start, right now, he won't let another day slip by without catching up. The next thing you know, he's bought a hairpiece that looks like road kill on him, signed up at the gym, and bought a new snowmobile, truck and trailer.

And you wonder why we all can't get along...



Marty, I was with you until reading this drivel. I hope when you stand in front of the mirror you don't look down to see what you're missing......

[Marty P]

Marty, I was with you until reading this drivel...

Nice word...(I mean I really liked it, it was very creative, I plan on using sometime in the near future in my own writtings)

driv•el
   /ˈdrɪv əl/ Show Spelled driv-uh lShow IPA noun, verb, -eled, -el•ing or ( especially British ) -elled, -el•ling.
–noun
1.
saliva flowing from the mouth, or mucus from the nose; slaver.
2.
childish, silly, or meaningless talk or thinking; nonsense; twaddle.

–verb (used without object)
3.
to let saliva flow from the mouth or mucus from the nose; slaver.
4.
to talk childishly or idiotically.
5.
Archaic . to issue like spittle.

–verb (used with object)
6.
to utter childishly or idiotically.
7.
to waste foolishly.

As far as the rest...well I'm sure from the sound of it that you must be more of a man than me...holy wah are you 12?

[big_motor_guy]

C'mon Marty, very quick to retaliate. if you would look at your keyboard you would see that the "v" is very close to the "b" the word should still be dribble but don't expect everyone to be as great a keyboardist as you are. As far as the rest of your original post I think it's mostly hog wash. yes there are 45-55 yr olds out there riding hard but not nearly as many as 20-35 yr olds (I'm 30 FYI). I think the racing in the trail mentality is fueled by advertising but don't auto manufacturers do the same thing? I don't want to say that a speed limit should be used but it should be discussed. The beating someone with a bat is funny but not realistic, that only leads to more violence. We need to get the DNR out of the trucks at the intersection and into the woods in tight corners. then have another at the next intersection. In my earliery and more stupid years, I'd be the guy everyone is complaining about and I think if some of you think back you might have been too. We all live and learn, and hopefully don't do anything that hurts anyone else. I really think the best way to do this is to require a snowmobile training program for everyone who is registering a snowmobile, it should be done every 3-5 years. Nobody wants to do it but if everyone had to then it would be more accepted. nothing anyone does is going to solve the problem, we can complain which makes us all feel better but doesn't really solve anything. Let's see what other ideas people have to increase the awareness of the dangers of snowmobiling. I'ld like to discuss speed limits, increased DNR enforcement, snowmobile training, and any other good ideas others have.

[polarisrider1]

"Demographics" of a snowmobiler...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Man-o-pause

A mental condition typically found in men in their early 40’s to late 50's brought on by the realization that old age is just around the corner. Symptoms include: frequent reminiscing about the “good ol’ days”, cranky judgmental attitude and a closed minded approach to anything new. Usually punctuated by the chronic need to play on a snowmobile and vote republican. The condition is difficult to cure and almost always progresses into old-timers disease.

Other symptoms include hatching plans for giving up his sales job, while taking all his savings to move to the U.P. and ride all day. He may have shaved his head, bought a snowmobile and acquired an 18-year old girlfriend?

If asked what's wrong, you will not be enlightened by his replies (remember the cranky judgmental attitude and close minded approach to anything new). He might say he doesn't know, or that he's just not satisfied with his life; now that the kids are grown he wants to toss the 6 passenger vehicle and buy a sports car, a snowmobile and a big truck and trailer to pull around. He doesn't know what's wrong, he just feels different, and only some big dramatic change can fix it.

If he would, or could, tell you what's wrong, you might be able to trace this odd behavior back to a time when he stood in front of a mirror and thought: "I'm 40 (or 45 or 55) and my time is limited. Eventually I'll die, but have I really lived? There are so many things I want to try, to do..." And he decides right there and then that he'll start, right now, he won't let another day slip by without catching up. The next thing you know, he's bought a hairpiece that looks like road kill on him, signed up at the gym, and bought a new snowmobile, truck and trailer.

And you wonder why we all can't get along...

Marty P, love your view. Most those still in mano-pause will also be in "post" denial. Ignore there attempts at justification. I am glad to be thru it with hair intact.

[nic]

wah, wah, wah! What a whiny bunch this is! For everyone who is in fear of their lives on every trail ride, STOP riding! Please- it is not that bad. The trails are narrow. I've been going 15mph and come around a turn to find another guy going 15mph and on my side of the trail. Is he a total jag? No. Did we both have to quickly swerve a little? Sure. I'll agree that there are some yahoos out there. But you guys make it sound like EVERYONE is horrible, Riding the trails on a Fri or Sat is like a death wish, and apparently you all ride around 25mph and NEVER do anything wrong. Get over yourselves. Hopefully it snows soon so everyone will lighten up and stop being so cranky.
If someone comes up behind you, pull to the side and let them go. If they're a jerk and shoot by and spray snow, give 'em the finger (if it makes you feel better) and go on with your day. I think pretty much every other car driver out there has half a brain. But I'm not whining about every occasion where I saw something stupid. It's part of the gig. Just go with it.
And for those of you who jumped down Marty's throat for his most recent post, again- lighten up. I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a joke. Ya know, that's the thing you're supposed to laugh at. Try it some time.

[skidooguymxz600]

All i have to say is that i have not been passed in 4 years, and have only ran one man off the trail. He deserved it. He saw i was behind him and would not let me pass, just pathetically attempted to go faster. I took him on the inside of a turn and ran him into the woods.


moral of the story: don't be the douche who doesn't let people pass you, it can be hazardous to your health

[AnnaWL]

Wow. I'm almost scared to comment, hopefully I won't feel like I should have kept my big mouth shut.
I'm awfully new to the sport and am very comfortable topping out around 40-50 mph when the trail permits. Plus, Polly (my sled), purrs like a kitten at those speeds (it's a beautiful sound). Perhaps one day I'll want to go faster, perhaps.
So far I've not had any faster riders shaking a fist or sending snow into my face as they've passed. I'm pretty careful about staying to the right when I ride.
Is this too slow? Am I considered a problem or dangerous because I don't go faster or am new to it all?
I'm not trying to be facetious, I really want to know. I look to more experienced riders to learn.

It's snowing here. Finally. :D

[kamikaze_bros]

C'mon Marty, very quick to retaliate. if you would look at your keyboard you would see that the "v" is very close to the "b" the word should still be dribble but don't expect everyone to be as great a keyboardist as you are. As far as the rest of your original post I think it's mostly hog wash. yes there are 45-55 yr olds out there riding hard but not nearly as many as 20-35 yr olds (I'm 30 FYI). I think the racing in the trail mentality is fueled by advertising but don't auto manufacturers do the same thing? I don't want to say that a speed limit should be used but it should be discussed. The beating someone with a bat is funny but not realistic, that only leads to more violence. We need to get the DNR out of the trucks at the intersection and into the woods in tight corners. then have another at the next intersection. In my earliery and more stupid years, I'd be the guy everyone is complaining about and I think if some of you think back you might have been too. We all live and learn, and hopefully don't do anything that hurts anyone else. I really think the best way to do this is to require a snowmobile training program for everyone who is registering a snowmobile, it should be done every 3-5 years. Nobody wants to do it but if everyone had to then it would be more accepted. nothing anyone does is going to solve the problem, we can complain which makes us all feel better but doesn't really solve anything. Let's see what other ideas people have to increase the awareness of the dangers of snowmobiling. I'ld like to discuss speed limits, increased DNR enforcement, snowmobile training, and any other good ideas others have.

big_motor_guy,

Just like guns, snowmobiles aren't dangerous until there put into the hands of a dim witted clown who lacks the experience, skills and common sense to operate one. Anybody that truly thinks the equipment and advertising is at the root of this issue and not the operator's mentality is very naive.

If you ask a casual snowmobiler what they enjoy most about the sport, you'll get a lot of folks that will give a generic reason ranging from scenery to the camaraderie. This type of response is just fine and dandy but I don't think it's very truthful. I believe these folks refer to this stuff because they believe it's what other people want to hear. I'll grant you that some of the scenery I've seen snowmobiling has been some of the most spectacular of my life and the times I've spent with my close friends and family while snowmobiling are some of my most memorable but they were all a secondary result of why I was there in the first place. The number one reasons I've enjoyed snowmobiling for over 40 years is because of nothing more than the shear thrill of it. When it comes down to it, the scenery rarely changes that much, nothing but a big white stripe through a bunch of trees mile after mile. You get out to the mountains and the only real change to the scenery is the terrain. I know I'm being a bit facetious, particularly about the serenity of the mountain scenery which by the way is still awe inspiring to me. However, at least in my case snowmobiling is and has always been about the trill. If the "Thrill is Gone", I'll be gone as well.

I don't believe I'm that much different then most folks when it comes to dealing with mindless, brain dead, inconsiderate, incoherent, obnoxious, self righteous knuckleheads that feel that they have the right to impose their will as they see fit. There is nothing worst than a guy that refuses to move out of the hammer lane on the freeway even though he's got cars stacked up behind him 15 deep. Chances are that this is the same guy that's running down the middle of the trail and refuses to acknowledge that the 10 sleds that have stacked up behind him aren't on the same page as he is when it comes to trail use. This is referred to as the "Frustrated Hall Monitor Mentality". This guy feels that it's his responsibility to for enforce the rules as he understands them and if he's following the rules than he's going to make sure you're going to follow them as well, damn it. Keep in mind that as frustrating as this guy has been, he's not going to be the one that kills you. It's going to be the suicidal Tucker Hibbert want-to-be.

I don't have the slightest idea what it's going to take to compel folks to wake up and extend some common courtesy to others. I just know that until that time comes I'm just going to have to accept the fact that I can only be responsible for my own actions and anticipate that around every corner or over every hill there's going to be knucklehead coming the other way riding like his A$$ is on fire.

[russholio]

All i have to say is that i have not been passed in 4 years, and have only ran one man off the trail. He deserved it. He saw i was behind him and would not let me pass, just pathetically attempted to go faster. I took him on the inside of a turn and ran him into the woods.


moral of the story: don't be the douche who doesn't let people pass you, it can be hazardous to your health

Wow....the guy may have been a douche, but running him into the woods and possibly into a tree is justified for that?

I'd hate to think that anybody would run anybody off the trail intentionally. A fleeing criminal maybe, but I don't think this qualifies for such an extreme measure.

[Administrator]

AnnaWL-

Welcome to the world of snowmobiling. First thing to know is that there is no such thing as "being too slow". Most folks ride at the speed at which they are comfortable and know they are in control. A small fraction don't. Unfortunately a large portion of that small percentage of folks that ride beyond their capabilities bring harm to themselves and even worse, others.

Because everyone rides at different speeds, we all need to be aware of what is going on around us, including anyone that may have caught up to us from behind. There are no rules or laws that say a slower rider must let faster riders pass, but it is an act of courtesy that keeps everyone happy.

So never be concerned you are riding too slow, only too fast. Pay attention to everything around you and anyone that might be wanting to pass.

To all-

I must say that I think things have gotten better in the past year or two than they were several years ago- at least in my neck of the woods. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I used to cringe having to get out on the trail on a weekend and lately have not had one single bad incident. I have encountered riders coming from the other direction that slow down a bit and make the passing more safe. I have encountered folks that wanted to pass, but waited patiently until I could pull off in a safe area to let them pass and I have encountered folks that pulled over for me to let me by when it was safe.

We all ride for different reasons. Some to sight see, some to get some fresh air and just get away from the every day rigors of life, some to travel from point A to point B and some to push the envelope for that adrenaline rush. I think Lenny said it best that more consideration for others is the key. Some slow riders need to be more aware that there are others behind them that want to pass (especially the leader of the slow group) and the trail racers need to slow it down when in the presence of other riders and be patient to get by those riding slower than they are.

I think the one common thread that WE all have is to be out there having fun. What fun is it if you let a situation frustrate you and ruin your day? Have a little more patience, consideration for others and learn to forgive and forget those that are trying to ruin your day.

-John

[russholio]

wah, wah, wah! What a whiny bunch this is! For everyone who is in fear of their lives on every trail ride, STOP riding! Please- it is not that bad. The trails are narrow. I've been going 15mph and come around a turn to find another guy going 15mph and on my side of the trail. Is he a total jag? No. Did we both have to quickly swerve a little? Sure. I'll agree that there are some yahoos out there. But you guys make it sound like EVERYONE is horrible, Riding the trails on a Fri or Sat is like a death wish, and apparently you all ride around 25mph and NEVER do anything wrong. Get over yourselves. Hopefully it snows soon so everyone will lighten up and stop being so cranky.
If someone comes up behind you, pull to the side and let them go. If they're a jerk and shoot by and spray snow, give 'em the finger (if it makes you feel better) and go on with your day. I think pretty much every other car driver out there has half a brain. But I'm not whining about every occasion where I saw something stupid. It's part of the gig. Just go with it.
And for those of you who jumped down Marty's throat for his most recent post, again- lighten up. I'm pretty sure it was intended to be a joke. Ya know, that's the thing you're supposed to laugh at. Try it some time.

Conversely, why should those of us who try to ride responsibly give it up because there are a few that don't? If the racers feel the need to race, why don't they take it to a track instead of the trails? There's a time and a place for everything, and there's room for everybody.

I can't speak for everybody, but with all due respect, Nic, it's not the rider who's going 15 mph through the turn on my side that worries me as much as the who's going three or four times that, can't stay to the right, and barely misses me while I'm hugging my right side as close as I can. Or is so far into my path that he has to go OUTSIDE of me to avoid the collision. Yeah, it has happened.

[rsvectordude]

AnnaWL-

Welcome to the world of snowmobiling. First thing to know is that there is no such thing as "being too slow". Most folks ride at the speed at which they are comfortable and know they are in control. A small fraction don't. Unfortunately a large portion of that small percentage of folks that ride beyond their capabilities bring harm to themselves and even worse, others.

Because everyone rides at different speeds, we all need to be aware of what is going on around us, including anyone that may have caught up to us from behind. There are no rules or laws that say a slower rider must let faster riders pass, but it is an act of courtesy that keeps everyone happy.

So never be concerned you are riding too slow, only too fast. Pay attention to everything around you and anyone that might be wanting to pass.

To all-

I must say that I think things have gotten better in the past year or two than they were several years ago- at least in my neck of the woods. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I used to cringe having to get out on the trail on a weekend and lately have not had one single bad incident. I have encountered riders coming from the other direction that slow down a bit and make the passing more safe. I have encountered folks that wanted to pass, but waited patiently until I could pull off in a safe area to let them pass and I have encountered folks that pulled over for me to let me by when it was safe.

We all ride for different reasons. Some to sight see, some to get some fresh air and just get away from the every day rigors of life, some to travel from point A to point B and some to push the envelope for that adrenaline rush. I think Lenny said it best that more consideration for others is the key. Some slow riders need to be more aware that there are others behind them that want to pass (especially the leader of the slow group) and the trail racers need to slow it down when in the presence of other riders and be patient to get by those riding slower than they are.

I think the one common thread that WE all have is to be out there having fun. What fun is it if you let a situation frustrate you and ruin your day? Have a little more patience, consideration for others and learn to forgive and forget those that are trying to ruin your day.

-John

Well said John!!

[nic]

That's just it, I'm not suggesting anyone give it up. But if you are that scared and think it's truly that dangerous, then yeah- you should park it. And the way most people are talking, that's what they sound like. My point is, I don't think it's that bad out there. People just come on this site to whine about their one crazy day out on the trails. The way it sounds- like to Anna- it's a free for all out there with people getting run down at every corner. I just disagree. Personally, I ride pretty fast. I've never been passed on a trail, and generally our group rides up to another, and passes. We do this after they pull to the side. I've never blown by someone on a narrow trail, in a corner, or even while they were still cruising along. I don't think I'm a jerk. Maybe some people do. I've passed people going the other direction at 50mph. This is the exception and only happens on the rail road grades in the UP where we were just cruising at about 80+. 50 on those freeways seems slow (to me at least). So to some on here, I guess I'm a 'professional trail racer'. However I don't think so. I'm not unsafe. I ride to my abilities. I slow down when there is oncoming traffic. I pass when it's safe. But I'm sure someone would think I'm being a jerk. How many people do you pass or see on the roads that are doing something ridiculous- and they're totally unaware of it? Just b/c you're moving slow, doesn't mean you're perfect.
Anna- you can ride as fast or as slow as your heart desires. Just be aware of your surroundings. If a group comes up behind. Pull to the side and wave them by. Don't cruise along at your speed for the next 5 miles and not allow them to pass. Or worse- I love it most when the 'leader' doesn't pay attention at stops or intersections. He can see that there are now 5 more headlights behind his group, but instead of letting us go, he keeps going. However some of the more considerate riders in his group let us go. Now we're caught in the middle- which I think is more dangerous. The guy in front of us might just see a headlight and not realize I'm not his wife, or whoever should be behind him.
Anyway- point is- this is supposed to be FUN. Everyone needs to stop being so dramatic and have fun out there. If fun is blazing new trails in the powder, go for it. If fun is a slower trail cruise and in before dark, great. Maybe you like to put on 200 miles and ride until midnight. Have fun. Just enjoy and stop worrying so much about the other guy. If you are in control of yourself and your machine- majority of the time, you'll be just fine. And for everyone's great fear of being run down- does anyone- ANYONE have an example (of their own, not their brother's, girlfriend's, cousin's.... where a totally innocent snowmobiler was hit and injured by one of these racers on the trail? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I honestly never hear about it. Just about everyone's 'close calls'. Those, there are many. It's part of a sport that involves driving through winding woods on sometimes icy corners. Quit whining about it.

[cat_man_mike]

All i have to say is that i have not been passed in 4 years, and have only ran one man off the trail. He deserved it. He saw i was behind him and would not let me pass, just pathetically attempted to go faster. I took him on the inside of a turn and ran him into the woods.


moral of the story: don't be the douche who doesn't let people pass you, it can be hazardous to your health

Do you realise what you did was techically assault? It is no different that running someone off of the road, other than on the road you have a 3000lb shell and a seatbelt to protect you. You should be prosecuted and in jail for your actions! Running someone off of the trail for any reason is dispicable, but to ditch the guy just because he sped up to try not to hold you up? What if in your haste to get wherever you where going you failed to see the guy was riding with his kid in front of him????? Now that turns into a very dangerous and potentaly fatal situation. But it sounds like you are the kind of self centered person who does not really care about potental harm to others. Paybacks always happen and I have no doubt you will get yours someday.

[skidooguymxz600]

Do you realise what you did was techically assault? It is no different that running someone off of the road, other than on the road you have a 3000lb shell and a seatbelt to protect you. You should be prosecuted and in jail for your actions! Running someone off of the trail for any reason is dispicable, but to ditch the guy just because he sped up to try not to hold you up? What if in your haste to get wherever you where going you failed to see the guy was riding with his kid in front of him????? Now that turns into a very dangerous and potentaly fatal situation. But it sounds like you are the kind of self centered person who does not really care about potental harm to others. Paybacks always happen and I have no doubt you will get yours someday.

There was no kid in front of him, he was trying not to be passed (weaving back and forth on the straights) and he didnt know how to go through a corner fast enuff to be hurt. it probally wasnt the best desicion ive ever made but it happens. and i wasn't trying to put him in the woods, i just wasnt giving up my line and he wouldnt let his ego be passed and he "got his" for it

I ride fast, very fast but were i ride traffic is low and i stay to my side of the corner 75% of the time and when i don't i can see through it.

All i'm saying is dont police me and dont mess with me, i don't stop for the sherrif so what makes me think i'm gonna slow down for you.

this doesnt make me a ******* though, i never fly by a group unless they won't let me pass and i always slow way down when going by others and have always stopped to help when others have needed it.

so many people think just because someone rides fast that they are buttheads.

totally not true

[racerxnet]

All i'm saying is dont police me and dont mess with me, i don't stop for the sherrif so what makes me think i'm gonna slow down for you. so many people think just because someone rides fast that they are buttheads.

If the shoe fits, wear it. I've considered the source.

MAK

[cat_man_mike]

"Didn't know how to get through a corner fast enough to get hurt"? Really???? How fast do you have to be going to be imapiled by a tree branch???? My guess is not very fast. "Don't mess with me. I don't stop for the Sherriff so what makes you think I am going to slow down for you"? Really???? Wow, I am sure everyone here is impressed. I believe that kida does make you a a*****e I do agree on one point though, just because someone rides fast, that does not make them buttheads. In my younger days I would ride faster, but I always waited for a safe place to pass, stayed on my side of the trail no matter what, and never tried to outride my ability. If I had to wait and extra 10-15 min untill we came to an open field or a stop sign, what's the big deal? My destination will still be there when I get there and what is so bad about being on the trail for a little longer???? Now that I ride with my wife and son I do ride at a slower pace and allow the faster groups to go by. 99.9% of the time they are respectfull and I get a wave and a nod "thank you" as they go by, but there is that .1% that think they have to prove a point by showing you just what their machine can do on their way by.

Keep riding like a jerk my friend. Some day you will walk into a rest stop and meet up with one of your trail victims. Just hope they are not one of the baseball bat riders like in some of the earlier posts on this thread.

[russholio]

That's just it, I'm not suggesting anyone give it up. But if you are that scared and think it's truly that dangerous, then yeah- you should park it. And the way most people are talking, that's what they sound like. My point is, I don't think it's that bad out there. People just come on this site to whine about their one crazy day out on the trails. The way it sounds- like to Anna- it's a free for all out there with people getting run down at every corner. I just disagree. Personally, I ride pretty fast. I've never been passed on a trail, and generally our group rides up to another, and passes. We do this after they pull to the side. I've never blown by someone on a narrow trail, in a corner, or even while they were still cruising along. I don't think I'm a jerk. Maybe some people do. I've passed people going the other direction at 50mph. This is the exception and only happens on the rail road grades in the UP where we were just cruising at about 80+. 50 on those freeways seems slow (to me at least). So to some on here, I guess I'm a 'professional trail racer'. However I don't think so. I'm not unsafe. I ride to my abilities. I slow down when there is oncoming traffic. I pass when it's safe. But I'm sure someone would think I'm being a jerk. How many people do you pass or see on the roads that are doing something ridiculous- and they're totally unaware of it? Just b/c you're moving slow, doesn't mean you're perfect.
Anna- you can ride as fast or as slow as your heart desires. Just be aware of your surroundings. If a group comes up behind. Pull to the side and wave them by. Don't cruise along at your speed for the next 5 miles and not allow them to pass. Or worse- I love it most when the 'leader' doesn't pay attention at stops or intersections. He can see that there are now 5 more headlights behind his group, but instead of letting us go, he keeps going. However some of the more considerate riders in his group let us go. Now we're caught in the middle- which I think is more dangerous. The guy in front of us might just see a headlight and not realize I'm not his wife, or whoever should be behind him.
Anyway- point is- this is supposed to be FUN. Everyone needs to stop being so dramatic and have fun out there. If fun is blazing new trails in the powder, go for it. If fun is a slower trail cruise and in before dark, great. Maybe you like to put on 200 miles and ride until midnight. Have fun. Just enjoy and stop worrying so much about the other guy. If you are in control of yourself and your machine- majority of the time, you'll be just fine. And for everyone's great fear of being run down- does anyone- ANYONE have an example (of their own, not their brother's, girlfriend's, cousin's.... where a totally innocent snowmobiler was hit and injured by one of these racers on the trail? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I honestly never hear about it. Just about everyone's 'close calls'. Those, there are many. It's part of a sport that involves driving through winding woods on sometimes icy corners. Quit whining about it.

It doesn't sound to me like you're a jerk or that your riding style is dangerous to others. I do wonder why there are a few people who feel the need to point out that they've never been passed on the trails (I've been passed, I have passed others, and not that it matters, but neither scenario impresses me). I guess I just don't understand why it seems to be such a big deal for some to get passed. I mean, as far as I know there's no checkered flag for any trail rider at the end of the day.

I would agree that it probably isn't as bad out there as it may seem by reading this thread. I would agree that there is danger in this sport and we assume some risks every time we ride. But, I think the risks could be minimized if some people just rode a bit smarter (notice I didn't say "slower" -- just because somebody likes to ride fast doesn't mean they ride irresponsibly).

Oh, how I wish I could go out and play in this paltry bit of snow we're getting............

[Marty P]

AnnaWL,


Welcome to what is probably the best snowmobile site around; hopefully you will find a comfortable home here on JohnDee.

As a newbie, the speed at which you should ride should be at whatever is comfortable for you, not the person in front of you or the one behind you. Like most have mentioned, just be completely aware of your surroundings at all times and always drive defensively.

While out there getting my adrenaline fix I find that I treat others the same way I deal with virtually everyone in my daily life, with respect, courtesy, and professionalism. I have found that 95% of snowmobilers do will do exactly the same for you.

We/snowmobilers occasionally sound like a bunch of bickering children but for most, snowmobiling is a true passion and as with anything of passion we also have a fair amount of self-righteous opinions, such is human nature.

So, don’t let these “sometimes” negative threads dishearten you, this is a great community of people and we welcome you.

[whitedust]

Interesting..........Ok let's turn this around.......... What about the guy who blocks the trail runs you left up on to the berm refuses to let you pass? Is this assault as well?? There are trail blockers out there too you know. Only time I ever passed a rider on right was when dealing with a trail blocker. Faked him left dove right bye bye see ya later.

I tried eveything with this guy waiting, brap knocks on door. Pulled left of him at stop signs. Tried to talk to him at trail fork & he jumps off sled something about let me ride with my group I said let me by & your are all done with me in 30 seconds. This guy was totally unreasonable jumps back on sled because his leader just kept on going. This was at fork Trail 3s & trail 8E. Rather than be stuck behind this guy on 3s I rode 8e to 107s little to no traffic & low & behold I come up on this guy again where 3s joins 107s. He didn't know it was me but I knew it was him & like I said sucked him left dove right & bye bye glanced in mirror & he was way up on left berm thinking I would stay left not sure he knew I was already by him. lol. Next guy in group starts the same blocking crap I use same fake left & pass him too on right. 2 sleds left in group & they start picking up the pace so I stay put fast enough & both sweepers left way behind. At 107s & 2 E these 2 riders stop in safe place I wave to them they wave to me & I'm gone in a flash. Nothing worse than a trail blocker IMO.:eek:

[fusion]

Wow - all I can say is Wow. Crazy.
I will show quite a bit of restraint and not say all I'd like. But to the guy that says he ran someone off the trail, this in NEVER acceptable in my book. Period. If I would have done this, I would never admit it publically. As Ten Bears says in Dances with Wolves..."this is all I have to say".

[kamikaze_bros]

That's just it, I'm not suggesting anyone give it up. But if you are that scared and think it's truly that dangerous, then yeah- you should park it. And the way most people are talking, that's what they sound like. My point is, I don't think it's that bad out there. People just come on this site to whine about their one crazy day out on the trails. The way it sounds- like to Anna- it's a free for all out there with people getting run down at every corner. I just disagree. Personally, I ride pretty fast. I've never been passed on a trail, and generally our group rides up to another, and passes. We do this after they pull to the side. I've never blown by someone on a narrow trail, in a corner, or even while they were still cruising along. I don't think I'm a jerk. Maybe some people do. I've passed people going the other direction at 50mph. This is the exception and only happens on the rail road grades in the UP where we were just cruising at about 80+. 50 on those freeways seems slow (to me at least). So to some on here, I guess I'm a 'professional trail racer'. However I don't think so. I'm not unsafe. I ride to my abilities. I slow down when there is oncoming traffic. I pass when it's safe. But I'm sure someone would think I'm being a jerk. How many people do you pass or see on the roads that are doing something ridiculous- and they're totally unaware of it? Just b/c you're moving slow, doesn't mean you're perfect.
Anna- you can ride as fast or as slow as your heart desires. Just be aware of your surroundings. If a group comes up behind. Pull to the side and wave them by. Don't cruise along at your speed for the next 5 miles and not allow them to pass. Or worse- I love it most when the 'leader' doesn't pay attention at stops or intersections. He can see that there are now 5 more headlights behind his group, but instead of letting us go, he keeps going. However some of the more considerate riders in his group let us go. Now we're caught in the middle- which I think is more dangerous. The guy in front of us might just see a headlight and not realize I'm not his wife, or whoever should be behind him.
Anyway- point is- this is supposed to be FUN. Everyone needs to stop being so dramatic and have fun out there. If fun is blazing new trails in the powder, go for it. If fun is a slower trail cruise and in before dark, great. Maybe you like to put on 200 miles and ride until midnight. Have fun. Just enjoy and stop worrying so much about the other guy. If you are in control of yourself and your machine- majority of the time, you'll be just fine. And for everyone's great fear of being run down- does anyone- ANYONE have an example (of their own, not their brother's, girlfriend's, cousin's.... where a totally innocent snowmobiler was hit and injured by one of these racers on the trail? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I honestly never hear about it. Just about everyone's 'close calls'. Those, there are many. It's part of a sport that involves driving through winding woods on sometimes icy corners. Quit whining about it.

I actually do have first hand experience in the trail crash department. Many, many years back, 3 of us were riding the twisties of Northwestern Wisconsin. We were riding way to fast and I highly doubt we would have passed a sobriety test. Anyways we meet up with a group of riders pretty much riding like us and most likely in the same condition coming around a corner. Our leader and their leader just missed each other in a tight corner. The next two sleds weren't so lucky. We had the inside corner and the second guy in our group couldn't hold his line and drifted up and into the guy coming from the other direction. The back of my friends sled fish tailed into the tunnel and leg of the on coming rider. This was the good part of the crash. Because I was following so closely I ended up crashing into both of them and proceeded to get t-boned by their third rider. Thankfully, the rest of their group managed to get it shut down before they got into that corner. This all happen at about 1:30 am and the temperature was well below zero. After the smoke had cleared and tempers subsided the only serious damage we found was to the sleds. Although, I'm pretty sure that my ribs would have appreciated at Tek-Vest. The funny thing about this whole episode is that after the heat of the moment had subsided and everybody figured out that nobody had gotten hurt we all started going about the business of putting the wrecked sleds back together and getting them running. It was amazing, we all ended up riding back to the motel these guys were staying at and crashed there for the night and rode with them for the next two days.

The dumb things that created this situation are pretty obvious, we were all lucky. But the thing that I think really stands out is what transpired afterward. And I guess it's not really that hard to understand why things turned out like they did if you understand the basic mentality of the passionate snowmobile enthusiast. We were two different groups of snowmobilers that were doing exactly the same thing. The only difference between the two groups was the direction we were traveling. It took us about thirty seconds to vent and then from then on it was like we'd been friends all of our lives.

[redbirds5]

I can't add much, just everyone please:
1) Be careful
2) Be respectful
3) Have fun!

[Grant Hoar]

Boy, you have to hand it to us. How better to give ammunition to the non-snowmobilers that would like to see more and more restrictions, than for various posters here to talk about things like intentionally running someone off the trail?

Might as well draft their legal briefs for them, we are handing them the facts they need to support their case.

I know, this is a forum chat, so there are going to be, and there are supposed to be, dissenting opinions. What does not help our case is the pro-snowmobiling community (us) writing stuff like this that reflects negatively on us.

For all we know, the guy who talked about intentionally running someone off the trail in a curve was joking. Think about it from the other sides' perspective however, are they reading that as a joke or as what is happening in the real world?

[skiroule]

Is there such a thing as "Trail Rage"?

[ubee]

WOW,who cares if somebody passes you !! Its vintage week at Eagle River,if u want to race go there !. I think everybody should get out and ride some ! I have been out almost everday since X-mas(except rain) and got a couple thousand miles on and haven't seen too many sledders like past years !The conditions haven't been the greatest and pitstop owners are hurting along with places to stay! I think the economy and gas prices have effected our sport more than most people want to admit ! Alot of pitstops not opening the door till someone shows up! everybody get out and ride!

[blu2u2]

This thread sure has some very "interesting" remarks! Please don't think that I am a snail on the trail. I love to go WOT on the lakes but on the trails I drive in control on right side of the trail. I, like many, have had the "close calls" when you meet another oncoming sled (that is on the wrong side of the trail) at a blind corner. I also have a mirror that I use so I can see if I need to let a faster rider by. On the these occasions I will slow down and drive as far right as possible so the faster rider(s) can continue down the trail without being held-up.
Some of the earlier remarks make me shake my head in disbelief. These remarks are exactly what gives snowmobilers a negative image! It is disheartening if someone believes that it is ok to put another person's life in danger just to show who is the boss on the trail. This "trail rage" riding is uncalled for.
Thanks John for this site! It is a wonderful place for people to tell their stories and state their opinions. However after reading this thread it shows that common sense and respect for others are two vital elements that seem to be lacking in the world today!

[anonomoose]

The commonality of many of the posters here support one premise, and that is that most have had several encounters with riders who were going too fast for the conditions including line of sight, and or were very much inconsiderate and put the other fellow riders into a very uncomfortable spot.

I am no different. My group usually consists of riders who are young, therefore inexperienced, and even those who are older and have never even been on a sled before. They are learning...to stay right, and learning to check the mirros, and learning to not string out...all the things that most of us learned while we were going thru the learning curve this sport more or less requires.

I have been riding a long time. The more I ride the more I find that I have just been lucky that nobody got hurt for all the same reasons that others have already posted.

Trying to stay in the vein of this thread, it seems to me that folks who would otherwise be decent drivers in a car or truck...just plain lose it when they get behind the handle bars and throw caution to the winds.

I don't like riding flat land...it bores me. Railroad tracks are like going across a lake...can't wait to get to the other side.

I do like to see the sights, and the going and coming is part of the fun, but it loses all aspects of fun if you have a "close call" on the trail.

So not that long ago, I decided that ALL the close calls that have occurred to me/us, have been on the trails. And NOT just on the weekends, though clearly the bone heads are most abundant at that time.

When you almost got someone hurt, the fun is gone. It has been transformed into things, like how fast can I get off this trail and onto backwoods riding where I won't have to put the group into harms way.

I have this need to get folks home again after a nice run and to NOT have a close call as the primary event that occurred to them when they go for a ride with me and my group.

That being said...I stay OFF the trails. I figure I don't belong there anymore. I use them ONLY to get to my riding areas and if I can take the LONG cut to avoid a trail I do it.

Don't get me wrong...I like to hit the flipper along with everyone else. But I just don't see the point in wrecking a sled, or worse getting somebody hurt just for the "thrill of speed". I don't need that to get excitement from sledding.

I have long thought about why trails were not made one way, or some trails exclusively for families and folks who don't have to go fast to enjoy the sport. Yes speed limited....this would give those who are learning a place to go...afterall, we don't put skiers on the black diamond run if they don't have a clue how to stop..do we?? Seems that all trails are wide open to folks who have to use their own good judgment to decide how fast is fast enough. Trails that are up down, right and left can be dangerous if some fella decides he had to get "caught up".

You know of who I speak....the folks who are wide eyed and all over the turns when ...imagine that--- somebody else is coming the other way? They turn me off of trails completely.

So I go off trail....logging roads and fire trails that means that we are very likely not to put "big miles" on the machines...but we are tired, happy and most importantly safe at the end of the day.

To me that is important....to the others who have already posted it...I agree, change the sport from within with reasonable and prudent measures, or...let those who do not know the sport at all...make those decisions for you. It has been my experience that the former is more productive and desired. The latter is always way too restrictive and unreasonable...but is NOW the LAW because we did it to ourselves. Police from within. Make the changes, or watch the sport go the way more socialist places have already gone.

Not sure of the outcome, but I know that there have been plenty of posters on here who are going to make self policing a pretty tough up-hill struggle...because they are selfish and inconsiderate, and they think that what THEY do....is just fine.

I hope that some can grasp the concept that if you have "never been passed" or that you "ran that sob...off the trail" or "sprayed that dude with ice pellets"..that you are NOT part of the solution....but rather part of the problem. It is not too late to reform.... sometimes we look back and realize that LUCK had more to do with our being around to tutor our grandkids than any intelligence we might like to pretend we possessed.

So the next time you come upon a slower machine...realize that it might be because the machine is limpin home, or the driver has a kid in his lap or the old guy is making one last run before selling the sled....stuff like that.

Nobody cares if you decide to take out a tree or two...and leave the family in a heck of a mess...but please remember that you are ruining it for the rest of us...slowly but surely. Lighten up...let others enjoy the sport so that you can continue to enjoy it too. Life is short enough without having to "give it up" because you don't enjoy it anymore...and that should NEVER be the reason that you can't continue to snowmobile...right?

[700classic]

Very well said, anonomoose!

[blu2u2]

Very well said, anonomoose!

X2!!!

[russholio]

Very well said, anonomoose!

Bravo!

And not that it's pertinent to this thread, but just an observation....the last sentence can be said of ANY pastime/hobby/sport/etc. in which one takes part.

[kamikaze_bros]

Anonomoose,

Thanks! Your post was exceptional, and to once again quote "Ten Bears", "this is all I have to say"!

[grub]

Really now - is there anyone one this site under 65 besides Indy? What a bunch of fun-haters. Bitch bitch bitch. It is a two month season. Get out and ride.

[russholio]

Get out and ride.

Easier said than done for some of us. Takes snow to make that happen. If I could, I surely would! :)

[Marty P]

Anonomoose,

Excellent Summary and Conclusion! Very well said....

[kamikaze_bros]

Really now - is there anyone one this site under 65 besides Indy? What a bunch of fun-haters. Bitch bitch bitch. It is a two month season. Get out and ride.

Grub,

I was actually up your way yesterday. Got as close as Greenbush and circled back. I haven't seen another sled on the trails since Saturday.

[grub]

Grub,

I was actually up your way yesterday. Got as close as Greenbush and circled back. I haven't seen another sled on the trails since Saturday.

Beltrami Forest. Best kept secret. Not to worry here as obviously the best riding is in the U.P. There is a LOT of snow there. No traffic, no law - it just sucks. Have fun.

[kamikaze_bros]

Beltrami Forest. Best kept secret. Not to worry here as obviously the best riding is in the U.P. There is a LOT of snow there. No traffic, no law - it just sucks. Have fun.

My brother and his two kids are coming up tomorrow. We're going to ride from here and head up to the "Angle and stay at the Oak Island Lodge and do a little fishing and riding. The only thing they said we needed to bring was our wallets.

[nic]

I appreciate the story (and your honesty) Kamikaze- but it's still not an example of 'the innocent bystander' getting rundown. You said yourself that the other group was riding just as fast, out of control, and probably half in the bag. So not like Mr. Family Guy got run down by 'ricky racer' like everyone here seems to think.

Russ- I'm not trying to prove anything by the fact that I haven't been passed. I just meant it more of a reference to my riding style. Others were posting how they slow down, they wave people by, they move over, etc. I'm just giving my perspective. As (usually) the faster rider in the scenario (not because I'm great, or because I'm crazy, or for any other reason than that's the way I like to ride)- those are my observations. I do have a picked machine, so maybe I threw an ice chunk. Someone could have thought that I'm a huge jerk and I did it on purpose, when that's not the case at all.

I agree with some of the 'blocker' posts though- there are times when a rider doesn't know I'm back there. THat's fine. When they realize it, 99% of the time, people move over. Just like someone said- 99% of the time, they are passed in a friendly manner. I always give a wave or a nod... thanks for letting me by. I don't goose it and nail them with ice/snow chunks. But then there are those that purposely block the trail to prevent you from passing (I'm not sure why... just being a jerk?). Or those that look back and then still proceed to putz (in my opinion anyway) along without allowing you to pass. I think that's just as rude and inconsiderate as those morons who are riding all over the place and out of control, or pass in a jerky manner.

I think we're all just in withdrawal. I know that applies in my case. My new years trip got rained out. I haven't ridden since last February. I'm dying here. I leave in 8 days and can't wait. We got 4-5 inches of snow at my house. Might have to do some hot laps around the yard this weekend just to get a small fix. Got new helmets for my kids- might throw them on there for a quick little ride to the local establishment for lunch and the Bears on Sunday. They've only ridden around the yard for a lap or so (2 & 4) so it would be their first real 'ride'.