$45 is too much

[gscheck]

I,m from southern Wi and usually make one trip up north every year. Sometimes northern Wi and sometimes the UP.I love the UP but sometimes we are only there for 2-3 days.If I made several trips a year there it would be worth it.How about a single day or week pass.Sorry but this year no UP for me.

[j_smith]

You get what you pay for.... UP is worth every penny, even for a 2 day stay.

[disco]

X2

[polarisrider1]

I,m from southern Wi and usually make one trip up north every year. Sometimes northern Wi and sometimes the UP.I love the UP but sometimes we are only there for 2-3 days.If I made several trips a year there it would be worth it.How about a single day or week pass.Sorry but this year no UP for me.Your kidding right?

[gscheck]

$45 to cross the border? Eagle river,Lando,Germain will get my business this year.There is usually 5 to 10 other guys I bring up. That starts to add up.

[Polarice]

We don't want you in the UP if $45 is too much for you. Go out west, it's a lot cheaper.

[coldbear]

Anyone believe that gscheck means that? Best money sez that 2nd place Wisconsin won't get any snow this year and the U.P. will get hammered l! They all get mad at the DNR but what to do? Ride the rocks of Wisconsin or enjoy 70 MPH trails in God's Country?Nuff said tonight.

[gscheck]

You don't think a $20 week pass is a good idea?

[rakins800]

My only question for you is.....Do you help brush in the fall, help with signage? Are you a member of a club? Are you a member of MSA? Do you do ANYTHING to help this sport??? Or, do you just buy your sticker and think everything should fall in place? $45 is truly a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of time and money it truly takes to make this happen. Stay in Wisconsin..........

[polarisrider1]

You don't think a $20 week pass is a good idea? no.

[rakins800]

Oh, and FYI.....a 5 day pass in South Dakota is $40. Michigan's $45 for a season is a steal......

[cuzzinolaf]

I think increasing the fee for a trail pass to almost double in two years is a bit much but still paid it. I wonder which state has the most expensive trail pass in the US.

[polarisrider1]

Oh, and FYI.....a 5 day pass in South Dakota is $40. Michigan's $45 for a season is a steal......Thank you! An out of state Ricky Racer can do $20 plus in damages spinning his studded track accross one paved street. Yet he does it at all paved streets. $45 is a deal. compare it to a $12,000 sled, a gallon of premium sled oil, one night of dinner at Mc Donalds for two, the cost of one spare belt or the cost of a case of Lenies original that gets drank on the way up. It is a value that you don't value. Best to stay home and ride dirt.

[gscheck]

I think $45 for a season is a steal! I'm just saying not for a day or two.Didn't mean to piss any body off!

[polarisrider1]

I think increasing the fee for a trail pass to almost double in two years is a bit much but still paid it. I wonder which state has the most expensive trail pass in the US.Keith, does it matter? It is a pay to play setup. Michigan does fantastic with the trails considering the volume of traffic it has. Weekend passes for $20 would be an idea. But would that include friday night to go along with Sat. and Sun.? most violators would be on Friday night. I know that crying here on JDee will get you nowhere on trail permit prices.

[rakins800]

Well, then, I understand your point. If you cant stay for a week or more it does seem expensive........why not backpack around the western half of the U.P. to get your moneys worth? Just a thought.

[polarisrider1]

I think $45 for a season is a steal! I'm just saying not for a day or two.Didn't mean to piss any body off!Always a hot topic here. I have a concern on were to put my Michigan, Ontario, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana trail stickers on my sled and not be in violation in one state or the other. My Darn sled looks like luggage that has traveled the world. Now the instructions states not to put a new sticker (trail permit) over the previous years permits.

[scottiking]

$45 is alot of money but I wonder how much it costs per mile just to run the groomer!
It costs me $200 in gas in my truck just to drive there so I don't let the $45 bug me!
Also I use very little of the trail system!

Everything costs alot these days, so it all depends how much you love to ride in a certain area!
Gas and oil bug me way more than the trail pass!
I go to Applebee's with my girl and have a couple sandwiches and 2 soda's and its $50 after the tip!
Ya just got to pick where ya spend your fun money I guess!
ANd thats all I have to say about that "gump style"

Scottiking OUT

[440_chazz]

We don't even have any snow down here and you're complaining about 45 bucks to ride on white snow? Really? It all comes out in the wash. At least its not Canada in midseason. 250 bucks. $$$$$$$$$$$. You could probably find Jesse and bum a ride with him down to Colorado.

[HardwaterHoosier]

I bet MI sell less permits this year than last:cool: if you catch my drift...

[chadlyt]

hahaha, you have to watch out around here lately. People are real testy. Mention anything negative about Krupps Gas, off trail pro's/cons, Gov. Walker (haha), or anything related, people will have no mercy.

I understand your statement and can see why you may be deterred. I bought 2 passes and was able to ride 200 miles with the family and kids after x-mas. I hope to make it back up, but I may not be able to this year. $90 for 400 miles kinda hurts.

Last year I came up and there was NO SNOW around mid feb right after the big meltdown. I think the passes were $30 per? We reserved on Gogebic and found snow in twin lake for 60 miles...

We were able to take advantage of the free fishing weekend the MI-DNR offered though. that was great, especially on Gogebic on the ice.

In the past, have there been any free weekends for sleds or day passes?

[cuzzinolaf]

Keith, does it matter? It is a pay to play setup. Michigan does fantastic with the trails considering the volume of traffic it has. Weekend passes for $20 would be an idea. But would that include friday night to go along with Sat. and Sun.? most violators would be on Friday night. I know that crying here on JDee will get you nowhere on trail permit prices.

It isn't the amount. It is the fact it almost doubled in two years.

[polarisrider1]

It isn't the amount. It is the fact it almost doubled in two years.09 and 10 were $35. we are still a ways to $70 (double).

[ezra]

I dontplan on buying a MN pass this yr and if the up gets no real snow I may just have to spend my cash on a tix to Alaska to visite the old man and pound on his sled sorry snow machine for a week

[cuzzinolaf]

wasn't it like $30 or $35 2 years ago?

I think it was $25 two years ago and $35 last year. I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'.

[SLED_DOCTOR]

I paid the $45 this year (in fact x2, for my wife'sled) but as someone mentioned above I am not as active in a local club as I should be....In fact I haven't been active in 10 years. But everytime I come to the UP, the trails are groomed. I think $45 is pittance for the incredible job that they do!!

[xcr440]

I bet MI sell less permits this year than last:cool: if you catch my drift...

With no snow anywhere else? I think they just might. Lucky timing.

[upsledder]

Most people here just don't seem to realize that there are actually others who have to live on minimum wage and watch every dollar they spend, but still want to snowmobile.

[killerbee]

Its to much in these hard times... i think they will stir some people away from going there.
The cost of fuel rooms permits for some people 2 days of riding is just pricing the average guy out?

[loriwlrc]

Snowmobiling is an expensive addiction, from sleds,to gear to food ,gas, and lodging. We choose our drug of choice, and pay the price . But when you see a groomer out on the trail just remember that $45 trail sticker has gone 100% to the equipment, replacement parts, gas etc. Our club is an all volunteer club so that groomer buildings could be built to make life easier for the operators that spend hours if not days doing the repairs and maintance needed to be done. In the past with the lower trail fees the clubs had to take loans out and purchase the equipment and pay for the up keep, gas etc. now 100% goes into trail maintance. So remember when you see a groomer or equipment that brushes the trails, signs that sign the trails, bridges you pass over, it all came from that $45 fee

[windingtrailgal]

Always a hot topic here. I have a concern on were to put my Michigan, Ontario, Idaho, Wyoming and Montana trail stickers on my sled and not be in violation in one state or the other. My Darn sled looks like luggage that has traveled the world. Now the instructions states not to put a new sticker (trail permit) over the previous years permits.

Tru Dat!! Poor kid couldn't even find a spot to put his beloved Monster sticker on that darn RMK! He rode it this week and loved it!! Junky kid!

But to stay on topic....I hear what gs is saying. If you only get the chance to ride a few days in the UP, the $45 seems a little harsh. We have 5 sleds we have to buy passes for...I'm not complaining because I'm happy the money now stays with the MSA and doesn't go to the state and then funnel back and we have a house there now and ride there more than the Northwoods of WI.

I'm thinking he was just stating that it just kinda sucks. Just a hot button issue with the JD crowd?! :o

[xsledder]

I,m from southern Wi and usually make one trip up north every year. Sometimes northern Wi and sometimes the UP.I love the UP but sometimes we are only there for 2-3 days.If I made several trips a year there it would be worth it.How about a single day or week pass.Sorry but this year no UP for me.

gscheck, you poor soul. Take cover and get ready for the bombardment.

[indy_500]

$45 is NOT TOO MUCH when it is the only place with snow. You can beat your sled up on 6" of snow in mogul city in Eagle River all you want. Be my guest. I spent my $45 and I'll be riding on trails that are groomed every day, and that actually have snow! I make $7.25 an hour. It takes me 6 hours of work to pay for that trail permit, and I have no problem paying it, I don't understand why anybody would be turned off from the UP because of a $45 trail permit. How much does your sled cost again?

[duramax]

I agree Indy 500. I just bought a new sled and wisconsin is thin and rocky especially this year. The UP is well worth the $45 to me because factor in the whole weekends costs, and whats another $45. Just sayin. The $45 goes to the trail systems and the groomers. It costs a lot to run diesel fuel through those babies.

[upsledder]

$45 is NOT TOO MUCH when it is the only place with snow. You can beat your sled up on 6" of snow in mogul city in Eagle River all you want. Be my guest. I spent my $45 and I'll be riding on trails that are groomed every day, and that actually have snow! I make $7.25 an hour. It takes me 6 hours of work to pay for that trail permit, and I have no problem paying it, I don't understand why anybody would be turned off from the UP because of a $45 trail permit. How much does your sled cost again?

Maybe the OP makes $7.25/hr and has a mortgage.

[ezra]

Maybe the OP makes $7.25/hr and has a mortgage.

bottem line spendy yes but if you are strugeling to get the 45 to buy a sticker then move on.sucks but pay all your bills set aside cash for 9mo of life. pay heavy in to your 401 if you still have 12k left over and your cars trucks furnice roof are all good you can afford to ride that yr. if not you cant afford it and are prob spending your future and need to get your ducks in a row and stick to the vintage in the back yard.

[polarisrider1]

It is not the trail systems fault that you don't have the $45 for a trail perrmit. Do what you can afford. Snowmobiling is expensive, but so is many other things. I don't Golf , smoke, go out to eat much, go to movies,etc. So I have sledding money. If you want to ride bad enough the money comes. You get what you pay for. We are way over due for snow in the lower. At this point Ontario permit is looking to be a deal. They have snow on the north east end of Superior.

[LoveMyDobe]

my only question for you is.....do you help brush in the fall, help with signage? Are you a member of a club? Are you a member of msa? Do you do anything to help this sport??? Or, do you just buy your sticker and think everything should fall in place? $45 is truly a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of time and money it truly takes to make this happen. Stay in wisconsin..........

good point!!!

[mride460]

I love how this cost of the Michigan trail permit complaint always comes up no matter what the cost has risen to over the last few years but no one bats an eye at paying $9-$10 for a quart or $40-$50 per gallon for 2 stroke oil!! Amazing!

[groomerdriver]

Most people here just don't seem to realize that there are actually others who have to live on minimum wage and watch every dollar they spend, but still want to snowmobile.

I don't make minimum wage but with a family of 5 to support and living at just above break even, you have to watch every dollar. If this was 5-10 years ago I would have made at least two trips to the UP to ride. This year = 0

$90 to cross the border is OK, but some other business won't get my $$ because we have to trim back. Maybe it's a burger and not a steak. It's the free hotel breakfast vs. going out.

[pitz0022]

I'm from MN and was trying to plan a trip to WI or the UP. Bottom line is that we will go where the snow is, but if we were going to stay in Hurley for example, we discussed the fact that you are kind of locked in to the staying in the state you are going to ride. So If we planned to ride WI we couldn't book a room in Ironwood because we'd have to buy a MI sticker just to get out of town, plus we'd have to buy a WI sticker to ride WI. So maybe it impacted Ironwood Hotels and bars since we had to stay in WI. We have never been to WI or MI so we will probably just end up going further into the UP and it won't be an issue, but a little reciprocity on the border towns could be nice for a newbie planning a trip, espeically if you had one trail sticker and could prove you were staying in a border town in the other state and were clearly in transit from the hotel to the trails you intend to ride. Maybe it already exists?

[cuzzinolaf]

After hearing everyone's comments... I'm hoping it goes to $75 next year. :p

[lenny]

I think it's a great idea, would help to work with more people. We have fishing licences for a day or 2 so why not sleds



You don't think a $20 week pass is a good idea?

[Banks93]

I think they run the groomers more in Northern WI than they do in the Western UP. I know this last weekend they did. I think the UP is great but for all the sleds that were up there this weekend they should of had the groomers on 24/7. Once a day doesn't do it when there are 2000+ sleds. If they want our money then groom. Just saying.

[lenny]

Most people here just don't seem to realize that there are actually others who have to live on minimum wage and watch every dollar they spend, but still want to snowmobile.



exactly and well said!

[cuzzinolaf]

I think it's a great idea, would help to work with more people. We have fishing licences for a day or 2 so why not sleds

Agreed!

[Banks93]

They could even do a volunteer groomer sign-up. There are plenty of groomer drivers in WI that are not busy.:)

[Mark@TimberlineSports]

And here is FOURTEEN more pages of the same dead horse.

http://www.johndee.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?28025-10-Fee-increase-for-Michigan-Trail-Pass-next-year

-Mark

[HardwaterHoosier]

They could even do a volunteer groomer sign-up. There are plenty of groomer drivers in WI that are not busy.:)
4 a cheap room an a burger I drive one for a week.

[mezz]

And here is FOURTEEN more pages of the same dead horse.

http://www.johndee.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?28025-10-Fee-increase-for-Michigan-Trail-Pass-next-year

-Mark

You beat me to it Mark! DING! Fries are done!-Mezz

[90s]

I have never hesitated on paying for the MI non Res sticker. But what bothers me somewhat is trails that aren't groomed. This past Saturday(7 Jan) I was on a trail in the Lk G area that hadn't been touched by a groomer in several days. There was enough snow for grooming. Where I'm from, the clubs groom the trails Thurs/Fri to have them ready for weekend traffic, and also early in the week if the trails need grooming. I know the reply wil be--then ride where the clubs groom for weekend traffic. When you buy a six pack you expect 6 cans, not 4. It could have been that the groomer was broke down, someone was sick, I didn't ask because it would not have made any difference.

[upbarleyboy]

The Western end of the UP was rough this past weekend. A ton of traffic coupled with the fact the Gogebic Range Trail Authority had one groomer break down (bad enough that it had to be shipped someplace for repairs) didn't help matters. Usually the UP is great. This weekend was a bad representation of that area.

[lenny]

here the deal: not everyone buys big dollar sleds and gear. I have put 500 miles on a 91 lumber wagon riding Yamaha riding with a carhartt jacket and work boots. I'm the hillbilly looking guy on the 21 yr old sled. My gloves are 3 years worn and stink like a dead cats butt. I have 4 kids, 3 properties, 3 old sleds, work truck, plow truck and the wife's van. Between my 3 vehicles I have 535k for miles. I'm not looking for any sympathy and have not complained about trail sticker but IT IS A STRUGLE TO PURCHASE ANYTHING THAT S NOT A NECESITY THESE DAYS. Everybody has a story and falls somewhere in the financial spectrum. So for many of you guys sitting behind your PC and somehow justifying to the less fortunate guy who loves to ride as much as you do but struggles to make it happen because his dollars are not as many this season,,,,just be careful,,,you may have your day before long and God forbid you open your mouth and mention you think it's to much to pay. You think everybody hops in the duramax in an enclosed with 4 new sleds, modular helmets, klim gear all matching, making 4-5 trips to the UP and burning 3 tanks of premium a day ? Seems to me that when many of you guys comment, you use the perspective of your own personal situation to instruct the guy who is not like yourself. It seems a bit heavy, rude and insulting.

The thread started out with a guy who thought it was too much and right away he's told to stay home. He than states an idea to have a temp pass like most every other activity offers and you still hound him. He even states " I think $45 for a season is a steal! I'm just saying not for a day or two. Didn't mean to piss any body off!" and you still try an justify he is wrong with every aspect that goes along with sledding. Who's the bonehead that said "We don't want you in the UP if $45 is too much for you. Go out west, it's a lot cheaper." Do you really think that is a reasonable response to speak for residents of the UP. Do you live here and speak for UP residents?


The entire UP got, I forget now, either 7 or 9 new groomers at roughly 225K per unit. I groom and burn roughly 30 gallons of fuel a trip and that costs 120 bucks. That trail gets groomed 7 nights a week. The club spends roughly 5 grand a week on fuel. Trail are open 16 weeks a year,,,,potentially. Correct me if I am wrong but out of the 45 bucks, 43 goes directly back to trail maintenance and everything associated with it. I think the establishment that sells the permit gets 1 buck and the dnr 1,,,, I think.

With all this said, I gladly pay the 45 BUT it is hard on the wallet these days and I do not complain. The thread starter did not seem to be complaining, just stating it may not work for him this season and suggested a temp reduced pass to accommodate more people and you still fricken trash him. Come on people, have a little respect, it goes a long way. Your lucky I'm not a mod because you'd see a lot of post disappearing like a few I quoted.

[whitedust]

$45 to cross the border? Eagle river,Lando,Germain will get my business this year.There is usually 5 to 10 other guys I bring up. That starts to add up.

Trails in those areas are Poor at best no snow so you & your buds will end up buying UPMI trail permit to ride on snow. I understand your point but in the end we go where the snow is & Eagle River,Lando,Germain don't have snow. Do your trail conditions homework then pay $45 bucks to ride on snow in UP. No real choice so far so be careful advising your buds. You don't want to be the goat for horrible trip over $45 bucks.lol:)

[neldogmxz]

2 to 3 days on Wisconsin trails with minimal snow = new carbides and new slides which cost much more than $45?

[dab102999]

With ya on that lenny...i think his post was taken wrong right from the get go...times r hard for all...some more then others...and i know a lot of whirlpool guys who have made low to mid 6 figures that r competeing with everyone else now..so no one these days is above or below anyone else...some are just luckier then others..the days of having a job u can retire and take a pention from ended when my father retired..

[xcr440]

Right on Lenny.

[Banks93]

Amen. Lenny. If I ever meet you I am buying you a beer.

[Polarice]

Who's the bonehead that said "We don't want you in the UP if $45 is too much for you. Go out west, it's a lot cheaper." Do you really think that is a reasonable response to speak for residents of the UP. Do you live here and speak for UP residents?



That was me if you have to ask! I do live in the UP part time when I can and I pay the taxes. So, I do feel that I'm a UP resident. I'm tired of people complaining about the trail permit cost because I pay it and I'm happy to do so.

Then you're going to have the guys that complain about the grooming; that it's not good enough.

BTW Lenny; "Come on, have a little respect" Bonehead! Can you be more of a hypocrite???

[7707]

Well said Lenny,
Thank you.

[alwaysright]

Lenny, well said

Polarice, you obviously don't get it, not worth my time responding to your horse poop attitude.

I like others was thinking of not spending the $45 this year for 2 sleds. but with the crazy lack of snow, not much of a choice. We may be eating sandwiches instead of going out and buying booze to bring back to the hotel rather than going to the bar. We'll make it work but other businesses will not be able to get my $$ this year. the extra $10 isn't the issue but for me hotel rooms seem to be going up as well as fuel so it all adds up.

[john w]

$45 to cross the border? Eagle river,Lando,Germain will get my business this year.There is usually 5 to 10 other guys I bring up. That starts to add up.

This is funny chit !!!!! I think you know your answer, STAY IN WISCONSIN, they don't need whiners !!!

[Team Elkhorn]

I agree with Lenny. This sport is expensive. Not just stickers, everything about it. If someone can find a way to save a little money, more power to them. Just because you can afford to spend more money than the next guy doesn't make you better, sorry. And telling someone else how to save/spend their money to afford it, come on, really???

[jonesin]

just wait and see how much they are after the PE's have to design and sign all the trails! :) I'm still laughing at that #$%# idea

[lenny]

your right about the hypocrite part and I do apologize. I could have used a better choice of words,,,sorry



That was me if you have to ask! I do live in the UP part time when I can and I pay the taxes. So, I do feel that I'm a UP resident. I'm tired of people complaining about the trail permit cost because I pay it and I'm happy to do so.

Then you're going to have the guys that complain about the grooming; that it's not good enough.

BTW Lenny; "Come on, have a little respect" Bonehead! Can you be more of a hypocrite???

[Polarice]

your right about the hypocrite part and I do apologize. I could have used a better choice of words,,,sorry

That's fine, I see your point and I agree. My response to the OP was just the emotional part of me being tired of these guys complaining when you yourself mentioned the cost of fuel to run groomers, etc. I could've have also used better words or just not said anything at all. It's all good :)

[moremilesray]

Something to think about.......................

Groomer & drag = $$$
Maintenance * of above $$$
Fuel $$$
Insurance $$$
Engineering services $$$
Grooming of trail network $$$ (*groomer operators)
Signing of trail network $$$ (*labor)
Brushing of trail network $$$ *
Signs for trail network $$$
Material to build bridges and culverts $$$
Labor to build/repair bridges and culverts $$$ *

The Superior Snowmobile Club is responsible for approximately 130 miles of trails, any thing marked with a * is done by Club members with no cost to snowmobile riders. ( this can be / may not be the case with other Clubs ) Join a Club, do some work and help to control the increase in cost of the trail passes.

Ride responsibly and THINK SNOW, as one of our Club members will say, LAKE EFFECT SNOW!

[Polarice]

Lenny, well said

Polarice, you obviously don't get it, not worth my time responding to your horse poop attitude.

I like others was thinking of not spending the $45 this year for 2 sleds. but with the crazy lack of snow, not much of a choice. We may be eating sandwiches instead of going out and buying booze to bring back to the hotel rather than going to the bar. We'll make it work but other businesses will not be able to get my $$ this year. the extra $10 isn't the issue but for me hotel rooms seem to be going up as well as fuel so it all adds up.

I guess you're always right LMAO!

[indy_500]

I don't make minimum wage but with a family of 5 to support and living at just above break even, you have to watch every dollar. If this was 5-10 years ago I would have made at least two trips to the UP to ride. This year = 0

$90 to cross the border is OK, but some other business won't get my $$ because we have to trim back. Maybe it's a burger and not a steak. It's the free hotel breakfast vs. going out.
I understand where you are coming from. I spent $15 in food for 2 days last weekend. I've never gone out for breakfast when I've been up north. But, you have a choice. Ride your sled for $45, or don't ride your sled at all. I don't see northern WI having rideable trails for at least a week or beyond until we get more snow. We cancelled our Minocqua rental for my mom and hotel for next weekend, going to the UP instead. There just isn't snow in WI, I could see the point in not spending $45 if there was snow in northern WI but there isn't.

[fightercat]

if we had lots of snow i doubt very much we would be having this conversation

[thebreeze]

The questions is, where will it stop. It is still very much worth it to me, but I can understand the reluctance for the guys that may only use it on a trip or two.

[Banks93]

I have no problem spending the money for the trail pass in the UP and enjoy it. My issue is that I want them to use the $43 for grooming the trails. I gave you my sticker money, my hotel money, my breakfast money, my gas money, my beer money, my lunch money, more beer money and then my dinner money and saw the same groomer twice all day. We went to Northern WI and I saw three different groomers doing more grooming in 30 miles then I did the 200 we rode in the UP. You know you have the only snow in 6 states get out and groom 24/7 because the trails were pounded.

[skidoodoug]

Well said Lenny

[600rev]

if we had lots of snow i doubt very much we would be having this conversation
x2 !!

[timo]

$45 is NOT TOO MUCH when it is the only place with snow. You can beat your sled up on 6" of snow in mogul city in Eagle River all you want. Be my guest. I spent my $45 and I'll be riding on trails that are groomed every day, and that actually have snow! I make $7.25 an hour. It takes me 6 hours of work to pay for that trail permit, and I have no problem paying it, I don't understand why anybody would be turned off from the UP because of a $45 trail permit. How much does your sled cost again?

maybe if you didn't live under mommy and daddys roof you would have a differnt opinion.

[scott_b]

maybe if you didn't live under mommy and daddys roof you would have a differnt opinion.

Give Indy a break, he is still in high school, of course he lives at home. From everything I have seen him post he is a hard working kid that more than pays his fair share for fun.

[98panther]

Sneaking in 1 post before this whole thread goes bye bye

[whitedust]

Pretty simple to me $45 for a trail permit for multiple trail sleds for 2 days use not going to happen. 1 sled $45 no big deal. People on budgets $90 for 2 sleds going to be avoided spent on food or another night in WI if possible. I get it.... not very difficult to understand. Hardcore riders don't care about cost get that too. No point putting the guy down just the way he chooses to spend his lean green.

[lenny]

grooming 24/7 in my opinion is foolish. Here is an example: I groom 46 miles of trail on Thursday nights. Last Thursday I passed about 75 sleds. On my way back the trail was maybe 10% better than on my way out. Here's the problem, when a groomer cuts the trail we actually cut it down. The bigger the chop the deeper the cut. The cut snow passes through the drag and is a groomed trail but loose snow. The trail needs 1-2 hrs of cold temps to set up other wise there is no durability of the trail. A groomer going down the trail on a sat with heavy traffic will do little except make people think they got their monies worth. It will quickly resort back to chop with traffic. I honestly felt I wasted 30 gallons of diesel fuel and will never groom again before 8 pm. Sleds over a freshly groomed trail push he snow right out of the low areas and we are right back to where we were. What really makes for a nice trail is a late night groom, cold temps and little traffic. As a club member, we deal with all 3 issues and when any are compromised the trail suffers. All of us groomers work in some way and getting up the next morning at 6-7 after coming in at 3 can be hard to do. Temps and snow have been the big deal this year. As you can see we are struggling.




money, my hotel money, my breakfast money, my gas money, my beer money, my lunch money, more beer money and then my dinner money and saw the same groomer twice all day. We went to Northern WI and I saw three different groomers doing more grooming in 30 miles then I did the 200 we rode in the UP. You know you have the only snow in 6 states get out and groom 24/7 because the trails were pounded.[/QUOTE]

[Banks93]

Yes, I here what you are saying but they still need to keep it from a 2' mogul course for the whole day. Going out once a day just doesn't do it when there are that many sleds tearing it up. I can say yes normally your right and that is how it should be done but when the traffic was like it was the groomers need to be running more.

Thanks for your time and grooming. It is greatly appreciated.

[polarisrider1]

The questions is, where will it stop. It is still very much worth it to me, but I can understand the reluctance for the guys that may only use it on a trip or two.It will not stop. everything goes up but our wages. Another motorcycle just went by the house, we need snow. I bought a permit and at 85 miles so far that was fifty three cents a mile. waa waa waa. and life goes on.

[polarisrider1]

maybe if you didn't live under mommy and daddys roof you would have a differnt opinion.thats just hitting below the belt timo.
Indy's values are different that yours, thats all. I can pick cans and raise $45.

[mspease]

your right about the hypocrite part and I do apologize. I could have used a better choice of words,,,sorry

Lenny is a good man and I knew he would apologize. Knowing him like I do, he meant no harm. You both handled this well in the end. Thank you.

[lenny]

I understood timo's comment to mean, if indy had the reponsibilities of the average adult, family, mortage, car payment he would better understand. Judging a mans values on a statement that could be received in various ways is a low blow


below the belt timo.
Indy's values are different that yours, thats all. I can pick cans and raise $45.[/QUOTE]

[Snow Rambler]

$20 for a 2-3 day pass...why not? A rider would only be able to beat up the trails for 2-3 days and pays almost 1/2 of a full season pass! It's a win win for everyone.

[polarisrider1]

I understood timo's comment to mean, if indy had the reponsibilities of the average adult, family, mortage, car payment he would better understand. Judging a mans values on a statement that could be received in various ways is a low blow


below the belt timo.
Indy's values are different that yours, thats all. I can pick cans and raise $45.[/QUOTE]And I understood timos comment to mean that indy is a kid and he can buy a permit since he has his parents to fall back on. Lenny how is your day going? We need you rested up for the big winter storm.

[gscheck]

WOW !!! I started this last night and just got home from work.I didn't mean to get everyone wound up.I was just saying I will think twice about crossing the border for a day.If there is no snow anywhere else then i will definately spend the money.Remember,I go once a year.I think both wisconsin and up do an excellent job with the trail system.

[yamarage07]

The only place there is enough snow to ride is the up, so i am pretty sure the traffic is pretty heavy thursday through sunday extra heavy with all the weekend warriors going to ride.heavy traffic usually means rough trails.the groomers do the best they can considering the amount of traffic.$45 bucks to ride is not that bad when you consider all the other cost that goes with it

[polarisrider1]

$20 for a 2-3 day pass...why not? A rider would only be able to beat up the trails for 2-3 days and pays almost 1/2 of a full season pass! It's a win win for everyone. Seems do able to me. heck the permit is cheap to make. MI could possible make more money with it. I suspect we will see one in the future when permits actually gets up there higher. But abain then we will have whinners about $20 being to high. I buy a permit and don't bat an eye. I pull the $45 out of my cigarette account. (I don't smoke, but did years ago) I also pull 2- week long out west trips from the same account. Now if the permits keep going up I may have to tap into my beer account.

[polarisrider1]

Okay, those who think the permit is to expensive, How should the trail system be funded?

[Polarice]

Lenny is a good man and I knew he would apologize. Knowing him like I do, he meant no harm. You both handled this well in the end. Thank you.

I don't want any harsh feelings. As much as I hate to admit it I can be wrong sometimes and say things that I really don't mean. I do want people to come to the UP(even if they do whine about trail permit costs ;)). Heck you can come to Ohio and spend a day at Cedar Point for around $50. That's one day of trail riding vs. one day at an amusement park. Is it worth the $45??? Hells yes!

[whitedust]

Yes, I here what you are saying but they still need to keep it from a 2' mogul course for the whole day. Going out once a day just doesn't do it when there are that many sleds tearing it up. I can say yes normally your right and that is how it should be done but when the traffic was like it was the groomers need to be running more.

Thanks for your time and grooming. It is greatly appreciated.

X2........ you can't let trail grooming get to far out of control difference between a pleasant ride & snow cross. Take good with bad but not all bad....... I had 1 day all bad didn't care but next day after groomers did their thing I had a real good time. It's all about exspectation & having fun. No fun entire day on Snowcross track.

[catalac]

I understood timo's comment to mean, if indy had the reponsibilities of the average adult, family, mortage, car payment he would better understand. Judging a mans values on a statement that could be received in various ways is a low blow


below the belt timo.
Indy's values are different that yours, thats all. I can pick cans and raise $45.[/QUOTE]

Lenny, how do you think I get to go up north? Pickin can's baby!

[Polarice]

Okay, those who think the permit is to expensive, How should the trail system be funded?

It should come out of Obamas campaign fund.

[catalac]

Lenny, when we gonna strike up a deal on the Rampar?
My boy needs a new bike..

[whitedust]

WOW !!! I started this last night and just got home from work.I didn't mean to get everyone wound up.I was just saying I will think twice about crossing the border for a day.If there is no snow anywhere else then i will definately spend the money.Remember,I go once a year.I think both wisconsin and up do an excellent job with the trail system.

No sweat you have your opinion I get it. Ride on! :)

[polarisrider1]

The only place there is enough snow to ride is the up, so i am pretty sure the traffic is pretty heavy thursday through sunday extra heavy with all the weekend warriors going to ride.heavy traffic usually means rough trails.the groomers do the best they can considering the amount of traffic.$45 bucks to ride is not that bad when you consider all the other cost that goes with itWanna bet. I found snow elsewhere and only 8 hrs. from home. permit is $100 for 3 days. No traffic.

[mride460]

We all agree snowmobiling is expensive entertainment. If $45 is to expensive to ride in Michigan, don't ride in Michigan.
When I cross into Wisconsin to ride for one or two days each year I buy their sticker at the yearly price because I might go back sometime later.
I figure if I can afford the $10,000 for a sled, the $4/gal gas, $40/gal oil, $700 riding gear, $500 helmet, & the endless meal and hotel bills the cost of a trail permit doesn't even cross my mind. It could be $100 per sled and I'd pay it because its worth it to me. and all 4 of my sleds would have one...

[whitedust]

We all agree snowmobiling is expensive entertainment. If $45 is to expensive to ride in Michigan, don't ride in Michigan.
When I cross into Wisconsin to ride for one or two days each year I buy their sticker at the yearly price because I might go back sometime later.
I figure if I can afford the $10,000 for a sled, the $4/gal gas, $40/gal oil, $700 riding gear, $500 helmet, & the endless meal and hotel bills the cost of a trail permit doesn't even cross my mind. It could be $100 per sled and I'd pay it because its worth it to me. and all 4 of my sleds would have one...

Just remember not everyone has a budget like that for riding! Different strokes for different folks.:)

[mride460]

Just remember not everyone has a budget like that for riding! Different strokes for different folks.:)

You're right. Was just stating how I look at things.

[whitedust]

You're right. Was just stating how I look at things.

Yep I get it & I spend very freely as well on the sport. But on the other hand others really do stay within their riding budgets & that is it no more money after the budget is shot. I have bought others food & drink because they did not have money mostly the younger married guys. Too me a good time don't care spend what I have too & more but others can't do that. You know just saying I undersatnd both sides.

[02zr600]

No fun entire day on Snowcross track. I would LOVE to spend the whole day on a snox track. Thinkin about spending $100 to go to ERX just for one day. That makes the UP seem pretty cheap for even one day! We have 4 sleds ourselves and a pack of more than 10. Im pretty sure you will see us in the UP.

[lenny]

I don't want any harsh feelings. As much as I hate to admit it I can be wrong sometimes and say things that I really don't mean. I do want people to come to the UP(even if they do whine about trail permit costs ;)). Heck you can come to Ohio and spend a day at Cedar Point for around $50. That's one day of trail riding vs. one day at an amusement park. Is it worth the $45??? Hells yes!

For myself, I have no hard feelings and hold no grudges. I probably make more mistakes than most. If you come up this way I'm buying you a beer and if you don't drink I'll buy lunch. I still believe most people are good and value a friendship :cool:


Lenny, how do you think I get to go up north? Pickin can's baby![/QUOTE]

that's a good thing, keep up the good work!


Lenny, when we gonna strike up a deal on the Rampar?

My boy needs a new bike..

let me think about that, it's a posibility. Those old bikes are heavy and cost a lot to ship. You ever up this way?

[whitedust]

I would LOVE to spend the whole day on a snox track. Thinkin about spending $100 to go to ERX just for one day. That makes the UP seem pretty cheap for even one day! We have 4 sleds ourselves and a pack of more than 10. Im pretty sure you will see us in the UP.

Ok PM me when here & I will let you know where the crap is so you can bang it all day long. I'm not a banger but know it can be fun for some.:)

[kwarp]

I have a used mich. trail pass for sale, 20 bucks, used once..........joking

[kwarp]

I do believe if it does keep going up, it will hurt the UP's economy. We bring 5-6 guys twice a year to ride up there, and this year it will be three times. It would be interesting to know how many people wouldnt go because of the price of the trail sticker. Im sure we spend 3-5 grand in the UP when its all added up. For me its a good deal because I get to ride my new sled, but for others, even in our group, the extra money it costs, could make them stay home. btw, trail 11 out of wakefield wasnt even worked on this year, beat the heck out us and our sleds, if your gonna put it on the trail map, at least try and clean it up and mark it.

[Polarice]

For myself, I have no hard feelings and hold no grudges. I probably make more mistakes than most. If you come up this way I'm buying you a beer and if you don't drink I'll buy lunch. I still believe most people are good and value a friendship :cool:


I've been known to have a beer or twelve! I may take you up on that if I'm over that way one of these days. Thanks Lenny, I think you'll be a good friend:). If you're ever by Munising look me up if I'm in town. I'm there throughout the year trying to figure out the fish around there.

[Skylar]

Hi

[lvr1000]

Now if the permits keep going up I may have to tap into my beer account.

lmao

[mride460]

Hi

Hi Skylar ..

[polarisrider1]

lmaoyour right, I wasn't buying into tapping the beer fund either.

[rozzy43]

sheeeww! I think I just read a soap opera! I mean Snow Opera :)

[coldbear]

You are kidding,eh? 20.00 more for two sleds? If you're having trouble paying that, you should get into boating and buy a canoe.

[timo]

thanks lenny thats all i was try to say. after rereading my post i could of paraphrased my words better. i didn't mean no ill will what so ever. indy seems like a great kid and lord knows we need a lot more kids like indy in this world. indy if you took this the wrong way i apologize i meant nothing by it, just trying to point out differnet situations/circumstances.
I understood timo's comment to mean, if indy had the reponsibilities of the average adult, family, mortage, car payment he would better understand. Judging a mans values on a statement that could be received in various ways is a low blow


below the belt timo.
Indy's values are different that yours, thats all. I can pick cans and raise $45.[/QUOTE]

[simonsr1]

Now the instructions states not to put a new sticker (trail permit) over the previous years permits.[/QUOTE]

oops, I'm a violater.

[simonsr1]

last year I went to a wedding in MN, I wasnt going to have a lot of extra time, but I brought the sleds anyways. I bought 2 trail permits and went out riding for only 4 hrs, the things that you have to do when you love the sport.

[indy_500]

thanks lenny thats all i was try to say. after rereading my post i could of paraphrased my words better. i didn't mean no ill will what so ever. indy seems like a great kid and lord knows we need a lot more kids like indy in this world. indy if you took this the wrong way i apologize i meant nothing by it, just trying to point out differnet situations/circumstances. [/QUOTE]
Totally understand. Snowmobiling is my life, It's what I work all summer for. That, and stupid stuff that doesn't do anything to put on my truck LOL I just bought clear headlights, foglights and corner lights with a chrome background. Most likely buying a new helmet and goggles tomorrow, and another gallon of Klotz the next day. No wonder my truck is always on E!

[craigrev]

Okay, those who think the permit is to expensive, How should the trail system be funded?

MI DNR website has a detailed explanation of permit fees and where the money goes to. The $45 trail fee is scheduled to 2015. It shows $8million being spent on trails while bringing in $5.6 million on trail fees. They seem to be trying to show a shortfall in funding. If you could determine how much revenue the sport brings to the state, I'm sure that the trail system is funded many times over. Figure in sales tax, motor fuel tax, hotel tax, income tax on related businesses, and the many people who bring their life savings to relocate to the UP after retirement, or buying/building cabins, etc. The DNR website stated a survey was made and 80% of snowmobilers were OK with the fee increase. It seems that the DNR wants to fully fund the trail system with permit money and let the state pocket the many more millions(probably 100's of millions) in income generated by snowmobilers. I will buy two permits as I do every year, even if it's only for a few days ride. I just won't be smiling as much as I used to while doing it!!!!

[90s]

Someone replied to my earlier post on trail conditions around Lk G. (Groomer broke down). I would like to see a two trail pass, for many people they only make one trip to the UP. Also the same for WI, make a two day pass available. Lenny pretty much spelled out the cost, here in WI the clubs have to buy their groomers & drag with their own money.( no money from the DNR or any other Gov source). Groomers run from 80,000 to 140,000 plus, the drags are another expense. WI trail funding is structured somewhat different then MI, but the cost ae still there, and many are hidden costs. So far, 4 trips to MI, so my trail pass cost a liitle over $11/day, a few more trips & I'll almost be ridding for free. I do with out many things just so I can ride. See you on the trail

[jdmt49]

TOTALLY AGREE Lenny.....I always pay the fee's and can afford to BUT when you go to WI or MI for a few days to ride it would be nice to see a 2 day pass when you have a Family and 4 sleds its 180 before you even unload...here in Mn its still 31.00 for THREE years or 16.00 for ONE year and they a pretty good JOB grooming......If you asked WI or Mi business owners who benefit from the snowmobiling business I would bet they would ALL agree also with a 2 day pass if it meant that out of staters would come more often.....Last year especially when everbody had SNOW in their back yard...

[xsledder]

...here in Mn its still 31.00 for THREE years or 16.00 for ONE year and they a pretty good JOB grooming...

THE best groomed trails I have ever ridin' on where in MN around Togo.

[lgscguy]

How would you guys/gals like this scenario 20 rental sleds x $45.00 EA.= $900.00. And this is something thats NOT figured into the rental rates but rather something I consider my contribution to the sport to be able to run my units on the Michigan trail system. And I also LOWERED my rental rates this year to try to encourage more people to rent!! And on top of this I still get people asking if I include Wi. trail permits on my sleds since we are so close to the border!

[snocrazy]

Now the instructions states not to put a new sticker (trail permit) over the previous years permits.

oops, I'm a violater.[/QUOTE]

I do this too. I have been able to peel the current year off with the last years sticker removing with it leaving the current year intact. Slap it on another sled and off you go. I am sure this is why they say you can not place over prior years stickers.

[Polarice]

oops, I'm a violater.

I do this too. I have been able to peel the current year off with the last years sticker removing with it leaving the current year intact. Slap it on another sled and off you go. I am sure this is why they say you can not place over prior years stickers.[/QUOTE]

I guess that I should've listened to the instructions. I did this on both of my sleds this year. Oh well I paid my dues. I don't plan to put them on other sleds.