View Full Version : Starting a business...
snowlover
08-28-2009, 09:43 AM
I am thinking of starting a property maintenance company mowing lawns, trimming shrubs, fertilizing, landscaping, snow plowing, etc. I have been laid off since March and have been doing landscaping on the side along with mowing lawns with a member of our FD on an as needed basis. He also is giving me 35 snowplowing accounts if I want them to get started. This is something I have always wanted to do but been afraid to pull the trigger, mainly do to the fear of the possibility of failing.
How have some of you gone about starting your own business'? Did you go to the bank to get a small business loan? I am trying to get started for under $25,000 with a trailer, plow truck, mower, blower, trimmer, etc. How did you drum up business/accounts? I was planning on doing flyers, signs and some ads. My wife and I are going to sit down and write up a business plan and discuss this a little more this weekend.
I just want to know what others have done and what made you pull the trigger. Even if I happen to get a job in the business world again I would still do this on the side. Nothing better than being in the outdoors and making things look good.
Thanks!
kevisip
08-28-2009, 10:06 AM
Just do it. The nice thing about failing is, you get to start over.
I would do it, and dont look back. Do a biz plan. It will help you with your direction. Sometimes you dont even have to advertise much. You will get a lot of biz by word of mouth. But if you do it in this state, find a good accountant and review state tax laws good. They tax you for every service here. Right down to the weed. I paid taxes on products that I did not have to ( I over paid).
But good luck. The most important thing is to have fun, love what you do, then do it well!
mikesac
08-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Hi Craig,
Like the last post said, hit it hard and go for it.
I started out my auto repair business ten years ago and it was the best thing I could have done. I am the main bread winner in my family so let me tell you I was scared, worried, and second guessing myself big time. I was already in the auto business for 15 years so I knew what I was getting into. I still did a business plan, planned things out and tried to cover all the bases before taking the plunge. Communication with the wife is very important because she might be worrying more than you but as with my wife yours may be a huge asset.
I would recommend starting small and working your way up. There has been a lot of guys that went out and got a loan, hired too many employees and buried themselves just to find out that they didnt have enough work to get things off the ground, so start small then gradually build on what you have. I tell people that the most important ingredients in a successful business are be honest, work your <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font> off, be smart, be sincere to your customers, and if you know what your doing everything will be fine. Dont be "all about the money" If you love what your doing and work hard the money will come and probably lots of it. Good Luck, Mike
Hoosier
08-28-2009, 11:24 AM
Typically the biggest cost to a new business owner is the opportunity cost lost from leaving the current job to start a new one. That's the big risk. Since you're laid off, you don't have that. If you buy smart, keep your costs down, have a realistic plan, and work hard, you can minimize your risk. Sounds like a great opportunity to get your piece of the American dream.
jakester
08-28-2009, 11:47 AM
If you go to get a business loan ,tell them you're from another country, things will go much smoother for you. I have a brother that lost his trucking business, banks don't like to help out middle aged white Americans. He's been in trucking for over 30 years. I'm sure he will bounce back, but it's been a tough time for him. Failure is always scary, but I say go for it, and good luck!!
famousguy
08-28-2009, 12:54 PM
Start small
Start small
Start small
toddspolaris
08-28-2009, 01:06 PM
And never have a partner
dcsnomo
08-28-2009, 01:22 PM
You might want to contact your local SBA office and have them recommend financing options and programs. Also look to see if there is an economic development agency in your area, as they sometimes have start up money available.
The SBA also has a great website, and I found their Small Business Development Center to be helpful when I started my business.
snowlover
08-28-2009, 01:46 PM
Thanks for all the advice. I contacted an old neighbor who owns his own CPA business for tax advice, etc. The guy I have been helping out got pinched a year ago for not charging tax on services and had to pay back $6800(could have been $22,000) so I know there are things like that I need to know about before I start. I have a buddy who is doing the graphic arts for free(beer) and possibly a JD family member helping with the advertising.
I am going to start small with no employees except my boys who are 14 and 11. Most things I will be purchasing can be used for personal use also(trailer for snowmobiling, mower, blower, etc.) I did some more calculations and I should be able to start for under $20,000 with some new and used equipment. My partner if LLC would be my wife. She may help with getting a loan since she is a minority(female) something she learned in her Business Law class.
I am going to check into a Small Business Development Center here in the Twin Cities also.
I think my wife is worrying more than I am about this. She may loose her job also, she will find out in a few weeks. She wants me to do this but at the same time being very cautious about it. We are going to really get down to it this weekend and set it all out on the table to see where to go from here.
All your comments and suggestions are great! Keep them coming! I really appreciate the info from all of you.
Thanks,
Graig
peter
08-28-2009, 04:02 PM
start small, do good work and keep doing good work the work will keep coming. Don't try to build an empire, that takes time. Word of mouth is the best advertisment. Keep cards on you at all times to hand out. This has worked best for me.
I have a buddy that owns small landscaping/snowplowing co. and he tells me in our area, price is very important he lost few accounts to other guy because he was $5 cheaper on weekly maintence. Hope this helps you.
I deal with some of the largest landscapers in the Chicagoland area and I touched base with my conacts and they all said start small but smart, don't buy cheap mowers ie:Craftsmen etc.. Buy good quality, and size does matter! Get wide deck mowers they all said TIME IS MONEY get in and get out.
As for fert they all suggest to avoid any issues with clients sub out to like a Chemlawn type of national chain that way if there is an issue you simply defer to them to deal with it this is until you get big enough to take on the liability yourself.
Oh and maintain your equipment more then anything because TIME IS MONEY a down machine isn't paying the bills
Good Luck
lukester
08-28-2009, 04:12 PM
Ok, Heres my 2 cents.
#1 rule DON'T HIRE EMPLOYEES
#2 rule DON'T HIRE EMPLOYEES
#3 rule LIVE BY RULES #1 & #2
When you hire help you don't just inherit ALL their personal problems.
Now your responsible for the health and happiness of their wife,kids,grandma,dog,cat,goldfish.......
You will also be signing up to be their personal finance company. Spotting them loans to fix their cars (so they come to work) pay their cell phone bills etc.
Basically all their personal problems become your problem. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE. I've been in business longer then most people that are reading this have been alive.
Presently I've got 17 of them. That translates to roughly 50 un-business related disasters for me to guide them through every week of the year...If I'm lucky.
A word of caution on hiring your 11-14 year olds. Make SURE they are permitted to operate power equipment. In most states its illegal for anyone under 18 to operate cutting/lifting/hoisting machines. This includes lawnmowers car hoists
Example: a car jack... If their on the job a car jack is considered a "hoisting apparatus". If your paying them its illegal for them to change a tire unless its on their car and their off the clock! About the stupidest thing you ever heard of right? Its true.. OSHA made that clear to me and my lawyers,
When they turn 16 and are driving they are not permitted to operate a motor vehicle "for hire" after dark. And their limited on the gross vehicle weight of that truck and its "combined load" their driving. It may be ok because their your kids under farm/agriculture act. CHECK THE RULES, MAKE SURE !! Been there bought the T shirt. Very expensive T shirt!
Lastly, 80% of all business that fail in the first year were underfinanced.
If you borrow money for a "start up" spend only what you absolutely have to. And sit on the rest.
Expand slowly, work hard, and don't get discouraged. In business the highs are great but the lows can get really low. Stick with it. Tomorrow is a whole new day.
If you hit it hard and you have goals and keep them your sure to succeed. Its doesn't come easy and it doesn't come fast.
But its worth it! ............Just obey "THE RULES" Good luck
mulchatna
08-28-2009, 04:16 PM
Craig,
If you decide to do it go buy a good computer, printer and fax as well as a copy of QuickBooks accounting software. QuickBooks will generate invoices and keep track of receivables and payables. It doesn't take the place of an accountant (for year-end tax purposes)but it allows even a small company look professional. Good luck.
m8man
08-28-2009, 04:17 PM
from a family that started a successful small business, word of mouth is your best advertiser... Service current customers well and then ask them for referrals if none come your way... I'd be suprised if it didn't just happen... Treat people like you would want to be treated and you'll do fine..
m8man
As has been stated before word of mouth will be your best advertising. To start with, anyway. Stay away from accounts receivables. Accounts receivables have killed many small businesses. Start out cash and stay cash. We have a middle aged guy in our town that does exactly the same thing you are going to do. He does very well. As he has grown his business he has had to get licenses to spray weeds and apply fertilizer. Not a big deal but necessary in this day and age. Ad tree trimming to your services. You might be surprised at how many older folks need this done but just don't have the means. Good luck.
snowlover
08-28-2009, 04:46 PM
I with you all so far. You all have been saying what I have been thinking. After a whole summer of mowing, landscaping, trimming, trimming scrubs, trees, etc. I have learned quite a few things...cost matters(even $5 a week), do an excellent job and more jobs will come. Size matters to. You do not make money if you have small equipment, get in and out quick.
I am going with a Great Dane 52" stand up mower to start with and have a John Deere and Honda push mowers. I am planning on purchasing an Echo trimmer and Stihl blower. I already have a good Husquavarna chain saw for tree trimming. I plan on doing everything from mowing, shrubs, and tree trimming. All maintenance on equipment will be done by me, I actually like working on equipment.
Good info Wags on the fertilizer, as my buddy states it can be a headache.
I am meeting next week with my CPA buddy. I plan on doing my books myself(wife) with Quickbooks also.
lukester- I will check about the child labor laws...I was planning on paying them cash if that would matter. When I was growing up on the farm we never worried about that type of stuff so I didn't even think of that. Also thaks for the advice on the financing, good info.
I keep thinking, do I need the big trailer? The answer keeps coming back yes since I have no storage space and the trailer can be used year round. Do I need a big plow truck? Maybe not yet. I found a good older chevy 1/2 ton ext cab with heavy duty package and a plow in excellent shape cheap...or I could sell my Yukon and get a 3/4 ton with a plow...this is what I am having some troubles with. The mower is a no brainer as is the other equipment. I really want to keep the expense down and start small as all have suggested.
Thanks again for all the help! It is all appreciated!
Graig
mulchatna
08-28-2009, 05:32 PM
Don't forget to check on the types of insurance coverage you'll need to protect you and your business.
snowlover
08-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Insurance is on the list.
Thanks!
polarisrider1
08-28-2009, 06:23 PM
Do it! and with out partners. Sub-contract your help and make sure they sign a no compete clause. The problem with lawn care businesses around here is that they also do snow plowing. Lost some of my best riding buddies that way.
in MN the sub contractor laws have gotten to be a real pain in the <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font> like 40 pages of <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font> pain per guy.and in a lawn biz I dont know if you could get away with calling them subs during an audit.but check in to it bennys are a bitch and worst than bennys workers comp .I give my {subs} $ to buy thear own bennys with 120 hrs in a mo.and thay buy thear own comp.the state is making harder and more speendy every year to be a legit small biz.but a few lawn guys I know do verry well. a few town home deals and some parking lots and a few guys willing to work {the hardest part}soon you will have a sore <font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font><font color="ff0000"></font> from sitting on that fat wallet all day and a tan left arm .just head to the dealer finance the minn you need go to work.worst case you end up with a nice mower and a life lesson to help you get the next deal right.
mikeh906
08-29-2009, 07:50 AM
Pay att. to the small details when setting up, its a long list, but once you have things set up it will be easier to run. The internet is very imporetant for advertising, look at competitors web pages, take a seminar on how to get your page on top when googled. Once your up and going add a pest control license for "Lawn and ornamental" then you can add services with your existing customers, who would rather deal with one company, one bill ect. Lawn insect control, weed control, fertalizer, deep root injection for trees and hedges. Lots of money in this, all you need is a tank, pump, motor, and hose reel on a truck or trailer. If you have the truck or trailer, used rigs can be purchased for 600 and up. Add a general pest control license to add general house pest control [GHP] to your routes. Aim at the high end homes as they have the money and not the time to take care of their homes. If they love you and your work, they will tell all their friends and family, and you will be very busy. Its not always about price, but service and quality of your work. I always pick up my clients newspapers, garbage cans or help with their grocerys, pick up any trash in the yard ect. Treat it as your own home. Books have written on this subject, these are just a few tips and ideas to ponder. Good luck.
Here is something I received in a news letter recently. It was spam from some forum
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>
How To Really Bid A Commercial Account
I had never been more frustrated than I was when I received a phone call from a property manager of a place I really thought I was going to get. He called me and I could tell instantly that I did not get the job. He told me that he pulled hard for me to get the contract with the people who make the decision, but they went with another company.
I hung up the phone in a daze. I know I did everything right. I met all of their needs, I answered all of their questions, I knew my numbers so my prices were right and I even threw in some freebies.
I called the property manager back and asked him why they chose another company instead of me and I will never forget his words…
“Sean, your proposal was impressive. You came highly recommended. However, they have a budget and your mowing price was $140 more a cut than the company they went with.”
Now wait a minute – mowing price? There were a ton of different services they wanted everyone to bid on – edging, mulching, shrubs, aeration, weed control, leaf removal, flower changes, and even some power washing. How the heck was just mowing the deciding factor? More importantly, how in God’s name did another professional company with the equipment and manpower bid $140 less per mowing than me? This was a 32 cut contract that they asked for – that is almost $4,500 less than my bid?
It did not make any sense… well, not at first.
I could not stop thinking about this and it really upset me and made me angry. There had to be a reason, some sort of magical formula or some nonsense they were using that made it possible for them to win this bid over me.
Then like most things, it hit me. I was so focused on thinking about things from my perspective – the only perspective I knew. I realized that I had to think like the property managers and decision makers thought. I had to literally pretend that I was the one pulling the strings and calling the shots. I had to stop thinking like a landscaper.
So I sat down and decided to do just this. If I had 10 companies providing me bids for my property, what would be the first thing I would look at?
Price.
Of course, price. They don’t care if you are a nice guy or what you’ve done in the past. The first thing they care about is price. So that lead me to the idea of just simply low-balling my prices from there on out.
Wait a minute. I am not a charity organization; I need to make money I thought to myself.
If I went in and just lowered all of my prices I would be losing money – yea I would have all kinds of commercial clients, but I would be broke. That wasn’t the answer.
Ok, what else do they look at when considering a company? Well of course they want to know that the companies are insured, capable, etc… but that should be a given. What else are they looking at?
I could not figure out anything significant other than price. So I dug deeper. What part of price are they looking at? What would I look at? I would look at mowing price first since it would be the most frequent charge. Oh my…. That property manager told me that their mowing price was $140 a mowing less than mine. That is obviously what the powers that be looked at.
Wouldn’t they look at the overall price? I mean, what’s the difference between me charging $140 more per mowing but my overall price being the same or even less?
I had to call the commercial property manager back and see if he would help me get to the bottom of this. I got him on the phone and asked him if he would be willing to help me figure this out.
I asked him why the other company was chosen aside from the mowing price. He told me that it was the only price they genuinely committed to. He said they bid on all the same services I bid on and their prices were about the same as mine, some higher, some lower, etc…. I asked him who’s bid overall was higher and he said he did not know, but he assumed mine since my mowing price was so much more.
The brightest light bulb I have ever seen went off in my head right at that moment.
Here’s the deal…
This company made certain that they included all of the requested services in their bid, but they manipulated the property manager and decision makers into believing that the only price that mattered was the mowing price. They convinced them that all of the other services, although necessary in some instances may not be necessary in other situations. They provided prices but said that the services would only be done if they were absolutely necessary.
In other words -
Their bid and their presentation was one in which they made it seem like they were as concerned with the company’s budget as the company itself. This was very attractive to the decision makers and the check writers. They used the approach of “loss-leader”. They knew if they could get their foot in the door with a lowered mowing price they would make that money back with the other services they would provide. They also knew that commercial properties have long-term advantages over bouncing from one residential to another – less drive time, easier on equipment; employees usually prefer it, etc….
I was starting to understand. But I was still stumped on the $140 mowing difference. I wasn’t using push mowers and brooms here. Their equipment could not be any different from mine. I knew I was organized and we were always efficient so it was not like they could do it much faster than us. I paid my guys well, but it wasn’t like I was paying them twice what this other company was paying. I paid taxes and so did they. I paid insurance and so did they. Even more importantly I knew that I would put our quality of work up against anyone’s any time….
Oh my….wait a second…. That was it…..
They did not do things as nice as we did – they did what needed to be done. They made the necessary areas look the way they needed to look (front entrance, view from the CEO’s window, parking lot, etc…) but everything else was done as quickly and inexpensively as possible. In other words, they trimmed only what had to be trimmed, they blew off what needed blown off, they edged only what could be seen, they applied mulch at 3 inches in the front beds and only at 1 inch in the back corner that no one can see, etc…
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For more reports like this, as well as examples of flyers, contracts, letters, proposals, how to estimate, how to advertise, taxes, insurance and a lot more, go to http://cts.vresp.com/c/?LawnCareSuccess/020a1f2d2d/8396be9d2c/1c8a558328
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Do you see what I am saying here? They were mowing and maintaining commercial properties differently than I was maintaining residential properties. Makes sense now, huh?
Every inch of Mrs. Wilson’s 10,000 square foot property had to be perfect. Every inch of the 20 acre industrial park did not have to be perfect. I was bidding based on the assumption that we would make every inch of that commercial property perfect. They don’t care about the bottom terrace in the back of the loading dock area – they care about the perfect edges and straight lines and weed-free beds at the front of the property.
That was it. It wasn’t that they weren’t doing a good job – and I am not suggesting this to you. What I am saying is, they bid according to the quality they provide.
The lesson here – show them you are worried about price as much as they are, get in the door by lowering your mowing price, make your money back with other services, and when you are doing the work, make the right areas look good and move faster and more inexpensively on the areas that no one sees or cares about.
My success rate on acquiring commercial properties of all kinds increased dramatically from that point forward.
I hope this information has helped you and if you have any questions feel free to contact me any time by visiting my site at http://cts.vresp.com/c/?LawnCareSuccess/020a1f2d2d/8396be9d2c/62cd250742
- and be sure to check out the information I provide for Lawn Care and Landscaping business owners like yourself.
Regards,
Sean Adams
Founder & Owner, Lawn Care Success
<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>
dcsnomo
08-29-2009, 10:02 AM
On the truck issue, consider the overall implications. You have a Yukon which costs you money and makes you no money. If you buy another truck for the business you will go to lower quality than you might want and will write it off to the business...the Yukon is still not making you any money. If you sell the Yukon and buy the 3/4 with a plow you write part of it off for the business use and it makes you money. You eliminate 1 nonperforming asset.
Just to be clear, I am not an accountant, but I do own a small business.
tomxc700
08-29-2009, 10:10 AM
If it was me starting out and I needed a good plow truck I would not go with a half ton. After you put the plow on and if you salt a load of salt, and sidewalk blower you are going to wear out things on that truck quick. Some repairs might require lots of down time, Trans, frame damage etc. I had a buddy that was looking at plow trucks a few years back and actually found the best deal at a dealership. A chevy 3/4 ton diesel with a boss v plow with all the options, that had only been used to plow the car lot no personal use for two years. He got it for a steal, truck under blue book and they didn't run the price up on him for the plow. Plus in the summer a 3/4 or 1 ton will haul the trailer much nicer when you are full of clippings and such. Like was said before don't waste your money and buy cheap stuff that just gets the job done, be safe and get a truck that will stand up to the daily wear and tear and looks nice. I use to work for a company that had 1/2 ton trucks to haul around our equipment trailer and the were beat to heck and falling apart. When one died the boss ended up buying a newer 3/4 truck that was in good shape and business went up. You are driving a rolling billboard for your company at all times when your on the road. So keep it clean and shiny and be the guy that lets people in front of you and DON'T SPEED, road rage, or play your music loud in subdivisions. People really pay attention to that kind of stuff. Sorry for making it long but that is what I would do if it was me. A lot of people don't even thing about their business image when driving, they just want to hurry up and get done for the day. One other helpful thing I can tell you is make sure that your brakes are good on the truck and if you can get them on the trailer because people will pull out in front of you all the time, you have never been cut of as many times in a day as you will be when hauling a trailer on a daily basis.
Mom and dad had acouple different busness. Grocerystore/butchering and sausage making, Landry mat, and full service gas station and garage. They always did there own work and only hired someone to work for them when they needed a day off or emergency. I have been thinking of trying to start my own business and dad has always said count on people being lazy and do that for them. Also offer quotes to companies that have lawns around them. With downsizing alot are getting rid of there caretakers for the grounds.
favoritos
08-29-2009, 11:04 AM
Eao, that quote is pretty good. We hire out services for all kinds of stuff. I am not on the decision team for the bid process. But I do end up seeing the price sheets for the various services. The most obvious stuff is reasonably priced and used the most often. The obscure things like cleaning fences of debris/growth are expensive but needed at times. Our snow removal is unbelievably expensive when we do the whole complex. Most of the time we try to get by with a few small areas. We could literally pay for a skid steer with each full lot cleaning. The decision makers will look at the most obvious stuff when comparing bids.
I also look at your truck and trailer as a moving billboard of the business. Your personal appearance on the job site is also important. People believe that they will receive what they see.
groomerdave
08-29-2009, 11:28 AM
A guy I worked with at one time is doing this exact thing right now in Marquette. He is happy and doing well. Go for it.
I plow during the winter and have a few suggestions. We have done well with Fords for plow trucks and have had good luck with Boss plows. Get at least a 3/4 truck, Diesels weigh more and plow better because of it. The Powerstrokes that we use get around 9 mpg plowing, and the one gasser that we have gets around 4.5 mpg. A 4wd dually with dump flat bed seems to push the best by far, but gets very loose on the road over 45 mph in the snow. Sipe your tires, doesn't cost that much and makes lots of difference. If you get bigger and need a Loader for bigger areas look at leasing / renting. Protech pushers are the best, but others work almost as well. It's all about the rubber cutting edge on them.
Think Snow! -Dave
swanee
08-30-2009, 07:20 AM
Return all phone calls as quickly as possible, no matter how big or small. In the service industry one of the biggest complaints is "he never answers his phone" or "he never calls me back".
Also, join some type of business networking/referral group to get/give referrals. This is a great way to meet other business owners and network with them.
You are exactly right about call backs.
Nothing po's a customer more than being ignored. Another thing is not let you kids answer your business phone! I tried to get paving contractor and every time I called his business phone all I could get was voice mail, of the 2 times someone answered is was real young kid. None of my calls were ever returned. If you can't return your calls you probably can't be trusted at all IMO.
swanee
08-30-2009, 05:58 PM
The biggest problems I see in the service industry has 9 out of 10 times been problems with not receiving a call back in a timely matter. The most successful people in the industry have always been the ones that "take the calls" when their phone rings or call back immediately. The problems seem to always escalate rapidly as someone "waits for a call back".
eao, your so right when you say if you can't return your calls you probably can't be trusted at all.
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