Togwotee Lodge reservations...

[techsledder]

You guys that have got out on their packages in the past; when did you make your reservations with them?? I started back in June asking them when to expect they'd be taking reservations for the winter packages. It’s mid-September and they still don’t have the rates loaded.

[yamahauler]

tech: I talked to them at Haydays this year and if you book before Oct. 31st and mention that you seen them at haydays, they would then give you 15% off the total price.

They guy I talked with told me that it costs between $109-139 per night. That price included lodging, breakfast, dinner, and a 90 minute social hour everyday. Doesn't sound like to bad of a deal.

For those that have been out there, are there any hidden costs?

[Firecatguy]

mmm Ben told us 109$ plus 10% off, guess he better get his stuff together..

if you goto the bottom of the page "togwotee website" it has winter pricing

[techsledder]

Yeah rusty, that website pricing is still last years pricing... I have been told by the reservation folks.

[Firecatguy]

oh he said they would be keeping them prices But he did say the prices are subject to change at any time--said something about if we are busy we will raise them if we are slow we will lower them.
I did not care for that statement and I am getting a sour taste in my mouth for Tog. riding awsome, food good,cabins are awsome but when it comes to paying your bill or making reservations they keep dropping the ball.

they also told another group diffrent prices then what he told us..VERY SAD

one side note DONT CALL THE RESEVATION LINE-- JUST CALL THE LODGE.

[techsledder]

"...if we are busy we will raise them if we are slow we will lower them." Wow, that is a really cruddy thing to tell a customer...

Their cool with just calling the Lodge? Some places like that (that are owned by a "big broter") get cranky when you do that.

Also, what's the number direct to the lodge? All they give out on their site is the reservations 1-800 #.

[doospunk]

If I recall, the early season rates are cheaper than in the prime season. November and early December riding will get you better rates vs. the holidays, and beyond, into Jan, Feb, and March. So rates may vary depending on when your looking to go.

[Firecatguy]

I do tecsleeder BUT i gave the card to someone else, but my friend Robbie does have it so I will email it to ya later today.

doospunk,
asylumcycle"Brian" was coming sat to talk with ya about tog he had kid problems so he had to stay home. I believe he is looking for ya on dootalk

the prices do change throughout the season. we just got different prices for a DEC trip.

[techsledder]

rusty I sent you a PM.

[yamahauler]

rusty: I talked to him after one beer, lmao, maybe he did say 10% but all I could think about is myself going through a crap load of powder, lol.'

I was listening to him talk about the sledding to a group of guys and he tossed out that John Dee and Dobson come out and do filming there...

People more in depth in business may be able to school me in this but why would you raise your prices on when you are busy or have a new product. Yea, great, you can gouge, screw whatever you want to call it to make more profit, but if you made a good product and always gave a fair deal, wouldn't people always come back and then by word of mouth you'd probly sell more in the long run. I sometimes don't know how some business people sleep at night knowing what they do, but then again they would probly sacrifice their first born for something ridiculous anyway.

This is no way intended to be directed towards Togwotee lodge or vendor guy at all. It is intended just as a general, well rant I guess.

[Firecatguy]

yamahauler,
RIGHT ON THE MONEY--no pun intended. lol

Tecsledder,
will do trying to get ahold him

[Hoosier]

I don't think they're gouging. It's just supply and demand. If they charged the same price the whole season, their prices in the slower months would have to be higher to make up the difference - and as a result they would end up with empty rooms during the months when the snow isn't as deep or the conditions aren't as good, which would cause them to have to raise their prices again to provide the same revenue necessary to keep the doors open. And so on. The discounts during those months provide incentives for people to come then. Just my opinion.

Turpin Meadow is 8 miles from Togwotee, and I think they have also different prices at different times of the year. We stayed there a couple years ago, and would highly recommend it. Dennis will take care of you. Togwotee is obviously highly regarded, Turpin is just another option in the same snow.

[chords]

A large or small business charging seasonal, holiday or even daily rates on land, sea or air is typical and acceptable cause they ALL do it and everyone plans around that.

[ezra]

go to kremmling or surrounding area like winter park grand LK or I thin burnnet has just lodging and meals this year for like 100 nt with out guid service.if you find your body cant take another day of digging I hear thay have alot of groomed trail around those parts.and if you have the energy at the end of the day you can take a drive to winter park and check out some ski bunnys

[techsledder]

I contacted Turpin Meadow for this trip also. We are newbies to the sledding scene in the mountains, so we want a guide for the backcountry sledding. I asked them for their package rate and if we were guaranteed a guide everyday like Togwotee. They said no, but we could pay extra to guarantee a guide. What!? Their online snowmobiling packages say it includes a guide. Plus, the package deal at Togwotee seems to be a better deal.

[polarisrider1]

techsledder, Don't fall for Togs. smoke and mirrors. They DO NOT and can not guarantee a guide. Been there done that. And if you do get a guide you can not pick your group always. I have been stuck in groups with first time trail riders before. I did my own thing more than once becuase of that. If you bring your own sled you don't have to ride in that group. I tell "Red" (girl in the sled shop) what type of riding I want and I have x amount of guys. "All Off trail, no coming back for lunch, and picture takeing is for when your stuck." I remind them every mourning too. One of my best guides ever (other than Carter or Matt Binion) was when our promised guide did not exist and we got a kitchen employee to ride with us. Togwotee makes alot of promises. Deal with Ben and Ben only for results. I stay at Lava Mountain Lodge now after giving Tog. 3 chances. If you do stay at Togwotee Make sure the guide knows what you want to do, this is very important. Noah will get you to the good spots. If things don't go well, Please don't take it out on the guides. Tog. has some good ones. and tip them for good service. Buy them a beer at happy hr. it goes a long way.

[Hoosier]

Polarisrider makes a GREAT point about lunch that I wish someone told us before we went out there. When we were at Turpin, we stopped at different places each day for lunch. While the lunches were good (at Togwotee, Lava Lodge, etc.), lunch was definitely not worth the time - once you factor in that you are only riding from 9 to 5 and it probably takes a 1/2 hour each way on the trail to get to/from lunch, and 1.5 hours for lunch, you lose a lot of your day. Next time we go out there, we're going to skip lunch, just take a break, eat a powerbar or two, drink a gatorade, enjoy the INCREDIBLE scenery, and get back at it. Probably end up with 2 more hours of riding each day. We were only out there for 4 days of riding, but I felt like a kid getting dragged out of an arcade when we left. Can't wait to get back sometime.

Our guides were good also at Turpin, but it might have just been luck of the draw. I don't think the guides at Turpin are as experienced as the guides at Togwotee are supposed to be, but they took us to some fun areas. I can't overstate how much fun we had out there.

[skylar]

I did my reservations last year on the internet. About a month or so before we went out. Zero issues doing it that way. Never called about a guide because I knew that Doospunk had taken care of that. As far as the guides are concerned, when they ask what kind of riding you want, and what is your experience level, be honest. If you say you are an awesome rider, and you are not, you may end up in a different group the next day, more suited for your ability. Trust me, the guides can tell your skill level pretty quick. And don't think it is just going to be you and your friends getting a guide, it won't be. They have way too many people to be able to do that. Last year our guided group consisted of myself, my brother, our 3 friends from Minnesota, and 4 guys from Illinios, and for a couple of days two guys from upper Mi. Now, we all got along great, and our skill levels were all about the same. Our guide was Nate, and he pushed us a little harder as the week went on, great guide.

Now, all that being said, the first time my brother and I went out, we did not get a guide. We still had a blast though.

Both times that we have gone out, we never had any issues, we thought the food and service was great. Happy hour was always fun. Make your nightly dinner reservations the night before.

The Togwotee area rocks.

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/114539.jpg

[skylar]

Oh yea, as far as lunch, we just brought our own, except for one day when we went to Brooks Lake Lodge, highly recomend that place. I have a muff pot mounted on my sled, so I was able to eat hot food for lunch. LOL.

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/114541.jpg

[Firecatguy]

brooks lake is sweet place, Im up in the air on lunch, glad we seen brooks lake --BUT not again we will just RIDE---dogs in the MUFF pot.

as for Togwotee,
I hear people last season with alot bad experiences at TML, and that made me worry-- But we went out 3 times last year and had zero problems. My favorite thing is meeting new people and riding with them, we had great groups all three times with the diffrent riding skillz you can learn alot new stuff, see lines you would of never tried. I'm looking forward to this winter and meeting new friends and riding with them.

Skylar, whos that behinde you? I think I know him?lol

[lookin4snow]

Couple thoughts. Regarding the raising of prices if it is a good year, it is supply and demand. Ever go to Sturgis or Bike Week and get there early or stay late? Your motel before or after the big week will be half the cost per night.

I have ridden Tog for quite a few years. I consider myself an experienced mountain rider. I have been paired up with first time mountain riders several times, and have elected to ride without a guide on a couple trips for a day even though I paid for a guide with the package deal. Many times they get so busy for so long that guides need a day or two off (many work weeks straight) and then scheduling problems happen. Last year I rode once with a new guide, Brent, who had us with a group of newbies and still made it fun for the experienced riders. That was nice. They have balancing issues when they get busy, but overall I have been very happy with them and they have been accomodating for me. Heck, even went riding with Ben a couple times on his days off. I'm a better cook than their cook though, so we are likely to go the cabin only rate for this year to save a little coin and eat better.

Whatever you do, make the reservation cause the riding is awesome.

[Firecatguy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOrFJQm_1U

I just love them helmets they rent!!!hahaha

[yamahauler]

lookin4snow:

I understand supply and demand and that is when I think corporate greed takes over. WHY does a company think they have to raise the price of their product when everyone wants it...answer....to please some executive or shareholder making a ton of money off of them. Instead why not just chose the price and sell more volume of it to make the same profit which in turn still makes the exec and or shareholder more dough. Sounds like a good problem to have...to many orders to fill and not enough time to get them done but people will wait to some degree while you keep making them. It is kinda like a Harley back in the day, you had to wait months to get one but I surely don't see how they worth what people payed for them imho.

[admin]

yamahauler-

Perhaps you need to think of it as not them raising prices when the demand is strong, rather lowering them at the slower times to try and entice folks to come and stay.

And it's not just "corporate greed" that runs by the economic law of supply and demand. Happens in every facet of our economy. That's why they call it an economic "law".

-John

[kevisip]

You hit it on the head there John. Yea for capitalism.

Speaking of Harleys, did the prices go way up in the good o'le times in the 90s and 00? I know they did in my area and you still could not get one when you wanted it. And the used held there prices. Now that demand is slow, I see them for a lower price. Now if I just had all that OT from years back when I was doing well!

[lookin4snow]

Exactly kevisip! Harley just did a better job of marketing it than maybe Ben did at Haydays.

[marty__kms]

Wow, and to think I majored in economics...all I needed to do was get on the JD site and I could have skipped the 5 years. (lol, at my own sarcasm, sorry)

[kevisip]

Now, if I could only balance the National Budget!

[techsledder]

Our group of four will be going out in March timeframe and we are all experienced riders as far as riding the hills and valleys in the Keweenaw. I know these pale in comparison to the mountains in Montana/out west as I have down hill skied a few times out west in the past. We know what we are getting ourselves into. We just would like an experienced guide to take us like you guys said out backcountry and not return until late afternoon. We don’t expect to be returning for lunch. So thanks guys for your suggestions and sharing your experiences at the various lodges.
Skylar, who was/were your guide/s?
polarisrider1 & iusmit , At Turpin ranch, did you guys pay for the guides service separate from your lodging package??

[skylar]

Well if you are experienced Keweenaw tree climbers/boondockers/brush runners, you should have no problems out in Tog! Some of those hills don't even have any trees on them to get in the way! LOL.


Like this one for instance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTHtEBa1lzA

That area was called the rock garden.


Our guide was Nate, he led us to some great spots. I would say his personal preference for riding would be technical tree riding, but, he will do whatever. Super mellow guy also.

One other thing I should have done, but didn't, was to pace myself. As in, don't go and get all crazy the first and second day, if you are out there for a week like we were, you will be tired and worn out after the first three days. Then instead of seeing a nice hill to climb, and doing it, you look at it and say, if I don't make it, how bad is it going to suck to get out of it? When you start thinking more about the digging out, then the challenge of doing the climb, that is when you know you are tired. LOL. Unless of course you are in great shape, or 20 years old. I am 41, and no where near in great shape.http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

Anyways, I hope you have a great time when you are out there, we always do.

[Hoosier]

Tech - the deal and pricing we had was unique because we had to work out a deal with Turpin at the last minute to reschedule because one of us broke his arm at the last minute and couldn't go out there when we originally booked. We were very happy with how they worked with us considering the circumstances.

Our lodging price included breakfast and dinner. The quality of each was top notch - definitely better than we normally go for when out riding with the guys. Keep in mind that Turpin does not serve alcohol - although when they picked us up at the airport, they took us to town where we could buy our own. I actually view this as a plus - since you don't have to pay bar prices for drinks and I'm not a big sit in a noisy bar guy anyway. Their main lodge has a big screen TV where you can hang out at the end of the day. Worked great for us.

We also rented sleds, and the price we paid included guides. Given that it was our first trip out there, the guides were very helpful. As we got more comfortable riding off-trail, they took us to more and more challenging areas. I wouldn't say that they are all expert mountain riders, as it seems the guides from Togwotee are, but they definitely knew how to ride better than us and we learned a lot from them.

Turpin is only 8 miles from Togwotee, which is good because Togwotee has a good gear shop. Next time we go out there, we'll definitely go back to Turpin. The only thing different will be to skip lunch so we can ride more. I'm sure Togwotee is great too.

[yamahauler]

John: Good way to look at it...I do understand supply/demand, maybe just for some stupid reason don't always agree.

Kevin: Everytime I drive by the Harley dealer, there are plenty to choose from and they are new. yea, now of course if you want something special you may have to wait.

[techsledder]

Skylar, Sweet videos! Thanks for sharing. Yeah, those quarters are wide open compared to what we see here in the Keweenaw. ‘Cept for when you make a mistake on some of those slopes your sled can tumble to the bottom… As far as pacing yourself goes, I know what you mean, when we’ve been out west in the past skiing, the time to acclimate would be a factor into how hard we skied the first few days. I kind of figured that would be the same for the sled trip. Plus with the anticipation that there will be shoveling of buried sleds, I am actually starting to work out again for a prep.

Iusmit, We’ll be taking our own sleds since we all ride mtn sleds or a facsimile there of, so we are hoping to get the lodging, meals and guides as a package. I know Turpin doesn’t serve alcohol, I’m not concerned with that, but it was the “perk” happy hour at TML has that swayed a couple guys. I’m with lookin4snow, I can cook better than most, but this time I’m not looking to pull KP duty on my vacation. So both lodges with their packages of breakfast and dinner meals is a plus for both.

So it sounds like there is good and bad with both, just what are you willing to deal with.

[Hoosier]

Tech - I'd probably just give Dennis a call. He runs the place and the buck stops with him. I think the guide service was mainly intended for sled renters, but I'm sure you could work something out. Maybe even tag along for a small fee. Again I wouldn't talk you out of Togwotee - seems like an incredible experience as well - but Turpin is another option worth looking into. From what I could tell, the difference might be in the feel of the lodges - Turpin is smaller and quieter while Togwotee is bigger and has a lot more going on, and may have more seasoned guides. There will probably be more people there to compare stories with at the end of the day. Either way, you'll have trouble wiping the smiles off your face until they drag you out of there at the end of the trip.

[einne]

poarisrider-we too were told that a guide comes with package-didnt happen. then two days later when wanting only one, we ended up with two. i guess they were feeling bad. ? and yes it was Matt that we got. awsome! unfortunately they kinda messed up a few things while we were out there. though would go bac, just learn from past.

[Firecatguy]

OK need to straighten some things out!!
I made a mistake in my earlier post about "rate changes", I misunderstood what Ben was trying to say, The rates do CHANGE as the season goes on and I did know that.The rate also depends if you choose lodge room,cabin or suite and how many people you have in your group. The rates have always reflected all that and the diffrent times of the year.
I thought he meant they would be changing the posted rates..

If you have any questions I would just call the lodge..
LOOK HERE AS YOU WILL SEE ALL THE RATES FOR THE PACKAGES.
http://www.togwoteelodge.com/bookonline/winter.cfm

not sure if everyone is on the same page..but
TOGWOTEE WAS PURCHASED BY ARAMARK CORPERATION LAST YEAR AND LAST SEASON WAS THEIR FIRST YEAR RUNNING THE PLACE..so all the stuff in the past is NULL AND VOID

I spent over an Hour talking with "friend from the lodge" and they are working very hard this year to coordinate the reservations with guide service, so if you book the all-inclusive you will be able to book guide at the same time.

If you are calling a booking room ONLY I would call their Reservation line in Phoenix.

but if you are calling to reserve "THE PACKAGE" you need to call,
SUE at the lodge-- 307-543-0400 she will have the guide schedule right in front of her, all you need to do is tell her the type of riding you do.

just so everyone knows
My group has had nothing but great times at Togwotee and the guides are top notch,we did not have any problems last year with booking and the Riding was over the top.
we had the pleasure to meet and ride with looking4snow in one of our groups..

[skylar]

Ya know when I read about the rate changes above I guess I didn't really think anything of it because I knew that their rates changed through out the season. No big deal I thought. The same thing happnes in Eagle River, WI during derby week.

[techsledder]

Thanks Rusty for all your help!

[longtrack]

If your worried about Rates, it cost me about $40.00 a night to stay out there last Winter. Eight of us Rented a nice House on the Highway near Lava Mtn.

Staying at the Lodges that are available is great. But if Funds are tight there are some alternatives.

I never had a Guide, so I guess I may be missing something. I always got around on my own and if I wanted to get stuck I made sure there was a young Guy around to dig me out.

Bottom line is this. You can stay at a Hyatt or a Super 8, both are comfortable. If you can't afford the Hyatt you will still have fun at the Super 8. Some in our Group can't afford the Hyatt.
http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/114697.jpg

[lookin4snow]

Here are some numbers from two of my trips to Togwotee last year. Between Christmas and New Years we stayed there for two nights with three days of riding. We drove all night on Friday night, rode Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and left after riding Monday, drove all night to get home. We did the cabin only. Cost per person, include diesel from Wisconsin to Tog and back, lunch meat for sandwiches, bagels, energy bars, paying for two meals (dinner) at the lodge, water, propel, lodging in the cabin - $302/person. This was four people in a crew cab Duramax. FYI, if you want to rent a guide and are not on the package deal it will cost you $60/person/day.

Went there in March, three nights lodging and four days riding, doing the same drive all night routine. This trip we did the all inclusive package – breakfast, dinner, happy hour, guide, water propel, everything, staying in a cabin, gas from Wisconsin to Tog and back in my big block GMC. This trip the cost was $707/person.

For comparison, in late February, we did a trip to the Snowies where we stayed at Old Corral and I was the guide. Continental breakfast was included in the motel rate. Did a kitty for the dinners and cooked lunch in the muff pot. That trip was four days riding and three nights lodging, same deal driving all night. That trip cost was $317/person (two crew cabs with 4 guys in each).

So there are three sets of numbers from three trips I took last year, so hopefully that will help folks with what a trip costs. I really like riding with Carter at Tog, so I spend the extra coin for guide service, but can’t do it all the time. We have driven the houses down by Lava many times, and have/are considering trying them for a trip this year, as I want to stay for a full week in February or March.

[Hoosier]

Longtrack and looking4snow - did you guys bring your own sleds out there? Where's the Super 8? In town?

I'd like to go back out there maybe next winter, and I'd like to put together the cheapest trip possible. But we don't have mountain sleds and I think I'd rather rent than extend our short tracks and have to trailer them all the way out there...

[cuzzinolaf]

Looking4Snow - Here is the website for those cabins by Lava if you're interested.

http://www.mountainpinnacleproperties.com/vacation.php

I booked "Moosehaven" for January. Nice place, great prices, and the lady is VERY flexible as far as the deposit and cancellations.

They have two very good deals. An A-frame for $195 a night that sleeps 11 and a 8 bed, 2 1/2 bath cabin for $225 a night (she charged me last year's pricing instead of the $245 for this year).

We will be looking for a guide one day but Wayne (PolarisRider1 on here) knows the area very well and is going with. The guide I'm gonna look into is out of Brooks Lake Lodge and his name is Joe. Supposedly one of the best for that area.

[Hoosier]

Cuzzinolaf - are any of our group renting sleds (your profile looks like you own a mountain sled)? Just wondering how that works out if you don't stay at a lodge...

[polarisrider1]

Sweet, Cuzz, were already packed!! and ready to go! I have never met Joe but his name was passed around the lodge alot. We Had Matt Binion "ride" with us. It would be way cool if we could get Carter for a day. I learned so much from him in the technical riding dept. that it was insane.

[cuzzinolaf]

Iusmit - No one is renting. You're right, my sled in that pic is a 2008 M8 SnoPro. I think most lodges rent sleds up there and let you keep them if you're staying there. If you're staying at a cabin and renting I believe you might have to return it each night. If you stay at Tog Lodge or Lava Mountain Lodge they have sleds. If you haven't gone west before I highly suggest the Snowies. It is closer and you can find a lot of everything. I haven't been to Togwotee so don't know. I heard there are peaks around Tog that top 14k feet. I believe the highest elevation I saw in the Snowies was just under 11k.

Wayne - I'm up for whatever guide and would love to get Carter for a day. I think Rusty got him on John's site so he might chime in eventually. If not I'm good with Joe or Matt as a guide.

[polarisrider1]

Iusmit, We have had guys rent sleds at Tog. and stay at Lava Mtn. We did the don't ask don't tell method with that situation. The guys would ride to Tog for lunch each day and to get there "free" tank of gas and oil top off. Tog. is so hectic they don't have a clue were there sleds are parked at night. I think that as long as you bring it back they are fine. I did rent once and after they fine toothed combed it, They found all the things I broke, smashed &/or twisted. I fell just short of the $1000 insurance deductable. Bring a credit card with space for body/suspension parts on a rental if needed. They rent good sleds and if not returned that way prepare to pay. Inspect your rental before you leave with it. Let the sled shop know if you find damage before you leave with it. All damage is "yours" if acepting a un-noted damaged sled. Seen that happen to a poor soul.

[lookin4snow]

Thanks for the link and the information Cuzz. Iusmit, most of our group has their own mountain sleds, but it wasn't always that way. I have rented from Tog and rented down in Jackson and dragged them up (rented a jeep to tow the sleds up as well). Tog's rental sleds were much better last year than in some previous years. I am tall and none of the rentals had tall enough ape hangers for me. Also, 3-4 years ago Tog's rentals were rough by March, and I got tired of dealing with little issues of things not working right on the sleds and paying $175/day. Then I got burned on un-noted damage once with a dealer in Jackson and that soured me on rentals forever and I bought the mountain sled. There are other rental options as others have mentioned, including Lava and the dealer in Dubois.

Carter is lurking out there, just got a PM from him.....he is just a man of few words until you get him into the backcountry!!

[Firecatguy]

few words???
I spent over an hour on the phone with him talking about this thread alone!!!hahahaha

[Firecatguy]

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/114774.jpg

[longtrack]

iusmit, we stayed where cuzzinolaf stayed at Mountain pinnacle with Mary. excellent place $225.00 per night for 8 people. It was only $23 per night. Lava Mtn Bar, Restaurant, Lodging and Gas station is there also. She has several Properties there for Rent.

Nice thing about Lava Mountain is your in the Middle of the System and it does not get torn up as bad as up north or down by the Line Shack.

We all bring our own Sleds

[polarisrider1]

longtrack, you just let the cat out of the bag. This is our secret.

[bigkevs]

If you're interested in Tog, check out nelsonsnowtours.com If you want to fly out and have your sled hauled out,a room at the lodge and an expert guide,Brian Nelson, check it out.He is only offering a few trips this year, however you will have an excellent time. Brian will take you to some nice off trail areas and if you have problems with your sled he has a support trailer parked at the lodge.I have been on 3 trips out there and have never been let down.
Bottom line- if budget is a real issue, might look closer to home.This area is probably one of the best to ride and sightsee.If you want to go, it is gonna cost a few bucks.
Hope you get something booked, you won't regret it!.....THINK SNOW!!

[carter]

OK, I'm here! I need to say a few things. Been a guide for Tog. lodge for 14 years. I do know what I'm doing and yes I'm vocal about all things sledding. Many of you may not know there is a system out here called forest permits. An outfitter can apply for permits, get accepted, and start a guide biz. Problem is, the forest service hasn't issued new peremits in 15 years. So to guide a group of people outside of the permits of Tog. lodge is a big no-no.Fines can be as high as $5000 and loss of all equipment. Sleds, trailers, trucks, get the idea. The new cop in the area used to guide at Tog. He does look for these things. As much as I would like to moon lite its all but impossible. If you are interested in paying the lodge for my services I would love to do this. A lot of this thread is about budget and doing what we love to do at the least expense, so paying the lodge $60 a day per person and a gratituity for me makes this not in the budget thing. I can tell you that if you were to do such a thing you would be HOOKED. Ask Rusty or Lookinforsnow. or any ons else who has done the guide thing. Behihd me or any other guide that works. Come to the mountains and spent years trying to ride off trail finding great spots and then worry obout how to find your way out. Or get a guide and spend no time worrying or finding. Thats why we are called professional guides. Thats why you always hear guys say " I can't find that stuff" They have to be concerned for their saftey and getting out is a big one. Rusty will tell you of many trips last year we saw feet of trail only to cross and continue the ride to the next great spot. I'm ranting..... Really, you have got to see the value in this and if you don't or can't thats fine. I rode here 4 years as a tourist from Minnesota always behind a guide always tipping him, I saw the value. The juice I got from that is the juice I still get riding and guiding. Taking you to oh crap we aren't going there are we, places. Places you can't find on your own. I ride 7000 miles a year. I'm supposed to know this stuff. Thats why you pay a Professional Guide. I should mention that I'm talking about all the pro guides out there. There is a bond there. We choose this job. And in conclusion I'd like to say...LOL Come to the mountains and ride whatever your situation is. It kicks the crap out of trail riding

[bigkevs]

Thanks Carter! You are one of the BEST there is. Never read a bad blog about you or where you've taken anybody. That powder is the greatest!
Keep up the good work......

[Firecatguy]

Right on Carter you summed it up!!I have nothing but good words for the Riding at Togwotee and as for the guide, I myself spend allot time working and saving all summer to play hard in the winter and after a lot of years riding, it took me many years to find all MY secret spots in wis and the UP- so I found it refreshing and fun to just ride and not worry about a thing.We have gone to places out in Tog with Carter That guys who have been going to Tog for years never seen and that's why I like to ride with a guide .I think of Togwotee as a Disney world for adults.
I have been getting alot emails from people on this thread, wondering about Tog,guides,food etc
this is going to be a subject till the end of time and if you go out that way to ride do yourself a favor leave the "I know how to ride been riding sleds for 20 years attitude at home" show up and see what all the fun is about, I have learned allot from the guides, They do a great job of evaluating your riding skill then push your limits a little more, you get to see lines you would of never tryed before.

if your on the fence about riding at Togwotee this might help you out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aodjihcqgmg&feature=channel_page
we made this last march riding with Carter..

I hope this answerd some questions for some of you, your more than welcome to email me with any questions you have."I DO NOT WORK OR AFFILEATED WITH TOGWOTEE" just love it that much...

[Firecatguy]

oh ya a side note

Togwotee-Indian word for-- FROM HERE YOU CAN GO ANYWERE..

[borderstaff]

Thanks for the post Carter - I came from MN 2 winters ago and stayed at Tog. for 4 days of riding. The first day was a shakedown of the 8 sleds we brought and the last 3 were with Noah as our guide. Our group was pushed beyond our limits everyday and everyone left at the end of the trip a little better rider with a huge appreciation for the time and effort that the guides put in to get us into great places to play and keep the group moving on when the fresh snow was getting used up.

I've ridden the Bighorns, West Yellowstone and Cooke all multiple times - but our riding out of Tog. still ranks as the best trip I was on - although Cooke last Feb after a 2 1/2 foot dumping and riding Wed.-Sat is a very close second. Its hard to beat Cooke (or anywhere) midweek when you ride all day in powder and never see another group.

[cuzzinolaf]

Carter - I shot you an email about being our guide in Jan. and I'm not sure you got it.

We're not staying at the lodge. Do we need to go through the them to hire you?

Is there anyway to avoid getting put into a larger group?

[polarisrider1]

Glad to hear from you Carter, The most talked about trip to Togwotee was when we rode with you. There is no way that I would of rode any of the stuff you took me on by myself. I had a 600 carbed switchback 144x2 at the time and you taught me how to make it work. Thanks again!

[polarisrider1]

Glad to hear from you Carter, The most talked about trip to Togwotee was when we rode with you. There is no way that I would of rode any of the stuff you took me on by myself. I had a 600 carbed switchback 144x2 at the time and you taught me how to make it work. Thanks again!

[polarisrider1]

why am I getting double posts? John?

[duane9835]

The wife and I went out there 5 years ago for our Honeymoon snowmobiling. We stayed at a place closer to Dubois called Yellowstone B+B. We rode mostly groomed trails since she was a newbie!!!! No guide at all. If and when we go back we will stay at the Tog Lodge it just seemed way more convenient.

[carter]

Cuzz., no e-mail yet. Was it sooner or later that you sent it? As a pro guide working for and under the Tog. permit system I can be rented from Tog. for a price. The catch is if your dates conflict with Lodge guests and their dates. Its a schedule thing. Anyone can come to the lodge and try to hook up with guides and their existing trips on a day for a price. We really don't want big groups either as it affects the quality of the day. However, I like group sizes around 10. I don't consider that big. Riding my style teaches you how to be in your own track. I want sleds behind me riding in their own fresh powder and not in my tracks. So 10 isn't big. Get through to me on the e-mail and if you don't like that I'll give you my phone and we can chat.

[cuzzinolaf]

I think I sent it yesterday to the email listed in your profile here. carter-g@blissnet.com

I've heard lots of good things about riding with you and would like to talk. Shoot me your number to keithanthony@gmail.com and let me know when is a good time to call.

I appreciate you responding. Thanks.

[mikes99ss]

It's great to hear from carter and his side of the business of things. I went to togwotte last year and really wasn't that impressed. Like skylar said you WILL get paired with other people. That may be a good thing, it may be a bad thing. We rode for 6 days at the lodge. The first 3 where with bret and it was Awesome!! Got paired with some amazing riders and laughed ALOT. The next three days we either got stuck with a group that had no skill or interest in riding the steep and deep, Got with a guide that didn't know where the steep and deep was, or got flat out dumped(no guide at all). I have since responded to other threads that they were on, P.M.'ed them and emailed The manager of the place to see if they are willing to explain to us what happened and how we can be sure it doesn't happen again and have yet to get a response. I would go there again but not unless i get some answers and a good discount for the trouble i had on the first round. It can be a great place to ride but it can go the other way too. Just like my trip. Half was Awesome and half wasn't. Just my 0.02$

[carter]

Mikes99ss, I will respond. Last year was our first year under a new corporation. The big shots insisted the lodge do all reservations thruogh the central res. system in Phoenix. When you booked they asked if you were using the guide service? Your answer was of course yes. You were then put in a list of numbers fowarded to the lodge. They skiped past who you wanted as a guide, your ability, total numbers in the group and all the good stuff we needed to fit for you a great trip. We at the rental shop had to sort it out as we went and yes mistakes were made. We saw right away the problems but were handcuffed by corporate. As a result of last year and the confussion we now ONCE AGAIN have a inhouse res. dept. We hate hearing about crappy days and crappy rides. With the system now we will stop most of the confussion. As for the guide that didn't know where to go to find the stuff, I have been teaching the young guides new stuff all of last winter, and it takes time. To be able to marry a groups abilities and sled abilities and conditions and desires takes years. I can't take a 5 rider to 10 riding. Ican't take a short track to hillclimbs, unless conditions are right. Hardpack and sunny, short track ok,on a climb. And so on.What you can do is know that you are not "stuck" with a guide. If the group decides to switch, go to the rental mgr. and get it done. Don't let something like that ruin a trip. In my 14 years I've had a couple of them not like me or my style. Its about you guys having a kick azz time and finding a way to getit done. As for the discount, I am not mgmt., and connot speak for them. I know they will listen. Perhaps a solution but that has to be a call from you.

[mikes99ss]

Carter.......Thanks!! I really appreciate the response. The first three days at the lodge left a good taste in my mouth and if there is a way to get some more of that i might be in. Is there any way you might be able to talk to someone and tell them my story. I can P.M. you my cell number if any of them would like to talk to me. Maybe we can make this thing work out after all. Thanks again!!

[biff]

Carter great to see you on JD. I do have to clear one thing up,we did have a major issue with Tog last year! But I think we had a couple of new roles of TP in about 15 mins. Now as far as to have a guide or not, i am all for one and would not plan it any otherway and here is a couple scenarios. Im super stuck, could work hard at digging it out to the left but to the right looks the best. Well lo and behold Carter shows up and says do not go to the right or you will be lost forever,only a guide or someone that rides that everysingle day would know that. Countless times something that I thought looked fun to go tear up was unsafe, humm who woulda thunk.I also learned out how to (try)and ride a snowmobile properly in the mountains from my guides, the tips are invaluable.Most important thing I got out of having a guide is the HUGE push to take a sled places over and beyond what I ever thought I was capiable of doing. I found out that my stock M8 was plenty of sled for my riding ability and then some. I saw parts of the country that I know would not even be possible for ME to see without a guide.I also found out how to get my azz kicked while having the the best time of my life and I do believe that to be the result of having a guide. 1st trip out and it will be one that I will not ever forget. What ever way any of you guys decide to go out remember have a great time and be safe.

[admin]

I just toss in my two cents. Keep in mind that most of the "guide services" being talked about is the FREE one. Meaning you stay at the lodge and can then get paired up with a guide- for free. Of course everyone else staying at the lodge has the same option. So when things are busy, you may not ALWAYS get paired up with riders of your ability, or have everything else work out perfectly to your liking. Lots of variables come into play to make things less perfect than is desired.

There is always the option to pony up and PAY for the guide service and then you get the guide all to yourselves and can go and do anything you want. Sort of like a lot of things in life, you want the best, you have to pay for it.

And another thing. As a former guide in the Keweenaw- TIP the guides! You want good service the next time, make yourselves stand out with your tip- especially if you are on the free guide program. You'll have the guides fighting over you!

-John

[carter]

John,you almost got it right. If one were to stay at Tog. on a package rate the guide is part of that package. So in effect he is free as in part of the package. However, this thread got started about expense. Budget trips and cheaper places to stay. A free guide from the package and the tip he earns over that is not free. It is higher than other lodges. Read through the blogs on this thread. This is alot about value. Riding untracked powder all day instead of 80% trail and 20% powder because you have to worry about where you are and how to gat back has value. The blogs tell you that. Being able to come west stay 6 to a cabin and eat P&J sammies inorder to afford the trip has value. They are both important. John, remember your first trip here, you and I together for 3 days with noone else. That had value. What I found out a long time ago is in this fast paced world most everyone wants the most value for the expenditure. Riding all powder for 3 days because you were led to it has greater value than looking for powder and riding a little cuz you had to look for it and were unfamiliar with the area. value applied. I for one would have you as my guide if I ever were to ride the UP. Thanks for your input...

[mikes99ss]

Very well put carter and thanks again for talking with us. I guess it is up to the guest as to what level of "fun vs. value" they are after. I think that one of the reasons, if not the only reason, i wasn't able to ride with bret anymore after day three is that i just could not afford to. I am just a working man that drives a beer truck and could not afford to be able to tip as much as the guys that live in the big citys and make 6 figures. I am in no way mad at bret for dropping us, he has to make the most he can in the time he has up there. That, I think is at the core of why i struggle with this as being a good "value" for my money. I guess it is up to the people to read the pluses and minuses of this thread and decide for yourself. The pluses were very high but the minuses, for me, were low. I did not use a private guide. I used the ones that are a part of the package deal. Some good about that and obviously some bad. read on and decide for yourself what you want out of your trip out there and how much you area willing to spend to get it. It CAN be the trip pf a lifetime, if you can afford it!!

[admin]

Mike.

I in no way meant to single you out with my comment. I worked with you last year at the trail work session and you were a good guy. My only point was to differenciate between the two levels of guide service.

As someone that has not only been a guide, but was completely responsible for booking the tours for KSE, I know what a jumbled mess it can be at times. I can only imagine the work that is involved at Togwotee to try and make the best fit scenario for everyone that wants to have a guide on that day.

It was never mentioned in this thread about actually hiring a guide as your own personal one for the day, so I felt it worthy to mention.

I only mentioned the tip thing because when I started working in the service industry, I realized the profound importance of tips to those working in it. I have found that a good tip can go a long way in almost all circumstances. Again, just a bit of advice to all and not anyone in particular.

Some have more money to spend than others, but none of us make as much money as we wish we did and we all just have to find our own balance of where to spend vs. where to save and then just enjoy the ride after that. 'Cuz the alternative is just a waste of the time we have on this planet!

-John

[mikes99ss]

John, I wasn't offended at all. I actually was just trying to point out the different options that a person has out there and thought it was a good comparison between the two. The only reason i even brought it up was that i took a different route than you did and felt that i could shed some light one of the things that towgotee has to offer that you didn't chose to utilize. I figured it was just more information that someone reading this thread can use to decide which way to go. Again, I wasn't at all offended. That wasn't why i put that in there. Just that i took a path that you didn't and figured i would shed some light on going that direction.

P.S. I am looking foward to the trail clean up with ya again this year. Lots of laughs, lies and beer!!

[skylar]

OK, everyone needs to quit talking about going to Tog this year, BECAUSE I CAN'T GO THIS YEAR! LOL.

[cuzzinolaf]

Skylar - I'll ride in some powder for you and take pics. I might even hold up a sign that says "Wish Skylar was here" LOL.

[carter]

John, thanks for the response. That was a home run. And something for everyone else. Tog. eliminated the private guide service 2 yrs.ago The way it works now is if you want to hook up with a guide and there is room you pay a day rate per person. The rental shop trys very hard to watch riders so we don&#39;t have mixed ability groups. new year, new season, we&#39;ll try even harder. Hey Skylar, we could moon you in the web cam!<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> LOL

[skylar]

Cuzz, awesome!http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

Carter, I TRIPLE DOG DARE you! LOL.

[Firecatguy]

is it Dec yet?!!!

[lookin4snow]

My first ride with Carter was in 2002. I have learned a lot about mountain riding from Carter, as well as other guides as Tog. Today I&#39;m a pretty decent rider due to riding with them. That has value for me. A few folks here and over on snow west think people are nuts for using a guide. I beg to differ. I have ridden with newbies and guides numerous days and still had a lot of fun. I also have ridden with some experienced riders and had a bad day, mainly cause they were jerks. I have also paid for a guide on the package at Tog and decided to ride on my own. It is unfortunate should anyone have a bad day or days in the mountains. I ride Tog 2-3 times a year, and I have had the full range of experiences. Based on what I have experienced and in talking to others at the lodge, I can only conclude that mikes99ss&#39;s experience is the exception and not the rule. My advise would be to give Tog another try.

Now, who ever claimed that mountain riding &#40;or trail riding&#41; was an inexpensive sport? The crew cab tow truck cost $35,000, the enclosed trailer was $7,000, and the sled was $9,000. To spend 4 days riding with a professional guide in one of the best mountain destinations in North America costs you $200/day. I don&#39;t know, but with all that invested in the sport, that doesn&#39;t sound all that bad. As I posted previously I go other areas for less cost, just so I can afford to do more mountain trips. Given a choice, my first choice is Tog with a guide.

[techsledder]

You guys have been great with all your help &amp; suggestions! We&#39;re booking this week with TML. I can&#39;t wait for March...

[snowbum]

went out last year and would definately do it again. Guides are great they do not keep you from doing anything. I tipped the guide 20 bucks a day. Sign up for the extreme tour and you will have your hands full. The first day on the extreme tour we rode 55 miles and I was toast. Brooks Lake Lodge is down the trail, very nice but more ching than Tog. Food was good and included. Free shuttle to/from JH airport. Check your bill at check-out. Mine was not what it should have been but they made it right.

[Hoosier]

Here&#39;s another question - what is considered a good tip for just a regular great day of riding, without any crazy stucks or anything? $20 person?

[cuzzinolaf]

Everyone has their own idea of a perfect trip. Someone might want to sit at the base of a hill and high mark all day, others might want to carve up every meadow they can find, and others like to play in the trees/deep snow.

I have ridden out west several times and never had a guide; always having a blast. I hear good and bad about having a guide and plan to try it out this year. I spoke with Carter on the phone for 45 minutes over the weekend and he sold me on giving it a shot. I do think every guide is different and that you can have a bad experience with a guide. I also think that if everyone in your group isn&#39;t at the same level you won&#39;t have as good of an experience. Having never had one I might not know what I’m missing. Each person in our group has a GPS so getting deep into the back country isn’t that bad. I wouldn’t suggest going out on your own without one.

Saying all of this, our trip to Togwotee this year and not staying at the lodge is based on people&#39;s budget. I think I&#39;ll be able to spend half of what I would if I stay at TML. Don&#39;t get me wrong, I&#39;m all for it and want to but the rest of my group doesn&#39;t and I need to go with majority. I’m getting married next year and need to be sensible LOL.

The trip is what you make it, the group ride with, etc. I&#39;m sure you&#39;ll have a blast riding out west no matter where you go or who you&#39;re with. I love riding the UP and once heard a guy said he&#39;d never ride the UP after going west. I thought he was nuts but can understand his logic now. I will still ride the UP LOL.

One thing no one has mentioned here are beacons and probes. If anyone is going out for the first time I highly suggest you have them &#40;rent or own&#41; and know how to use them. If you can&#39;t get to Mike Duffy&#39;s Avy course &#40;Madison and Green Bay&#41; this year I suggest reading as much as you can online and watching videos on Youtube. I saw a video on youtube that really scared me last year. A hill I wouldn&#39;t hesitate to play on slid and buried two guys. Granted you shouldn&#39;t have two on a hill.... but the fact it slid is what got me. Avalanche prone hills or danger is something that a guide would be a huge help with. My first trip west was to Cooke and I rode with guys who knew this stuff. If it is your first time west you might want to seriously consider a guide for the first few days.

Whatever anyone decides to do will be a blast. Be safe and come back to JD’s site and post pics for us.

[techsledder]

Cuzz, That&#39;s a good point on the Avy training. I caught that Duffy&#39;s training in GB on another thread here and I already contacted him last week on it. Our group already plans on taking that course. I had first responder training in the past from the Red Cross and I have always been in the boat, better safe than sorry when comes to back country adventuring.

[carter]

ALL of us out here in the west who ride in the mountains anywhere say IF YOU DON&#39;T HAVE BEACON, PROBE AND SHOVEL DON&#39;T COME. If you can&#39;t afford to buy find a place to rent them. The beacon you wear belongs to me its there to save me. The beacon I wear belongs to you. It&#39;s there to save you. I don&#39;t want to get into a whole new topic about this but anyone from the flat country who is an avid western rider knows what I&#39;m talking about. They own their own gear and they are as passionate about it as I am. They will chip in on this I&#39;m sure. You DO NOT want to send a friend home in a box because you think you are above having and wearing and learning to use saftey gear. Riding with guides at Tog. you are required to have the gear. We have rentals, beacons and backpacks with the shovels and probes. This is really a no joke thing.

[techsledder]

Yep, Carter, that&#39;s on our list of things to get also...

[maddogg]

I can&#39;t believe people go out and don&#39;t opt. for the safety gear. Well maybe I can....

[doospunk]

Just &#34;having&#34; or &#34;renting&#34; the gear is not enough. Learn how to use it. Practice with friends at the house, in the yard, etc. Have a plan on how to react in the event an avy occurs, who will direct the group, who will probe, etc. Duffy&#39;s course provides great insite to all this.

[Hoosier]

What about those &#34;airbag&#34; backpacks...are those getting more popular? Can you rent them?

[borderstaff]

BCA has a new ABS pack coming out this fall that may be the most affordable one available. The cost will be $499 per pack. It is the next step after training; beacons, shovels and probes. You&#39;re life is worth it to be equipped for the worst case scenario.

[olsmann]

I think all you guys should go out west as much as possible as many weekends as possible! That way us other folks can have the U.P. to ourselves! http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

[cuzzinolaf]

The newest ABS bag is a prototype and has NEVER been tested. I&#39;d wait a season before even considering it.

[carter]

I knew this would happen....The guides at Tog. teach technique and the what to do&#39;s. The who is in charge thing depends on who see&#39;s what. The person who see&#39;s the event or is first on the scene has charge. He decides who beacons, probes or digs. Unless he is rattled and then he passes to a caim person. Lets think snow and good thoughts, and let this go for later.THINK SNOW......

[doo_dr]

Things were so much more simple in 92&#39;. Carter may be able to help with the original owners of the past. You only had to worry if there was going to be enough water and the lodge took care of you. Tog staff would ride with you on their day off. Carter wasn&#39;t so confident &#40;LOL&#41;. Meals were awesome, With in a few days you knew everyone by first name. Lance could make sleds do amazing things. The simple times still had problems. Your reservation was on file cards and seldom correct &#40;no change in 17 yrs other than technology&#41;. Sorry Ben!!! They seldom had spare parts for the rental sleds. Most important is that they had to take the hot tub out of the lodge because it got too much moisture in the rooms. Everybody goes out west for a reason. And those reason are as diverse as everyone on this site. I have made Togwotee my mountain home since 92&#39; beacuse it offers a great package for every kind of &#34;reason&#34;. The choice is yours on how you want to vacation. Save a buck PBJ - drive up from Dubios. &#34;I don&#39;t need a guide&#34; - Not on the package. &#34;The only thing I want to worry about is putting gas in my sled&#34;- Inclusive package. I&#39;ll take that last one back because you still have to be on TML like a hawk to make sure your file card doesn&#39;t get screwed up/lost.
Please remember this small story when making your choice. Two years ago our group was going up a valley East of the lodge &#40;Carter may be able help- Simpson Peaks??&#41; and it started to snow to white out conditons. Right about the time we gathered everyone up to start making our way down the mountain and back to the trail, we spotted two guys walking down the valley &#40;4 miles from the trail&#41; They had dropped into a draw that they could not get back out of and had dropped thier sleds into a creek bottom filled with deadfalls. No guide. no beacons, no safety survival gear, no ride plan for friends. Just two confident riders out having fun. When we got them back to the lodge we were the last group in and it didn&#39;t stop snowing til the next day. They would have never found there way off the mountain and may not have been found until spring. Do you need a guide? That&#39;s your choice&#40;I think you should sign a waiver releasing the park from looking for you&#41;. Do you need safety gear and a plan? With out a doubt. I like to let Carter and the guides worry about this kind of stuff. They have seen most places in the mountains during times of concern and we tip them well for their knowledge. FYI to many. Because of the guides, my wife of one year &#40;who is expecting in days&#41; has already made reservations for TML in Feb.

[Firecatguy]

yep Mike Duffys course is a must DO!!

having a beacon is a must!!
getting to know how to use them is a must!!

and when you get to Tog they will give you a breif run down on how to use them and how to do a search..

here Carter giving a little advice about the beacon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klup4OZqGkU&amp;feature=channel_page

[doospunk]

Geeze Pat! What don&#39;t you take video of?? haha. Spoke with Jack this morning about Dec., so sounds like things will work. Give a shout when you get a second.

[Firecatguy]

I will share a little story with you all--
lat year as we were geting ready to head to TML in jan I went to the local dealer, got to talking about our trip with salesman they were having one of those tours leaving the dealer for TML 20&#43; sleds and people they were going to be out the same time we are. I asked the one guy who he uses for a guide and his response was &#34;WE DONT NEED A GUIDE I BEEN GOING TO TOG FOR 10 YEARS PLUS&#34;
well we got to Tog and on our second day a helicoptor landed across the street-it seems the guy who said &#34;I KNOW WHAT IM DOING&#34; droped into a area that they could not get back out of, so off the search party went. The group did make contact with someone at the lodge said they were ok but could not get back out of the area-SO THEY SPENT THE NIGHT IN THE BACKCOUNTRY and a group of guides went in and got them out.
I will say they looked liked they seen the devil as they were a mess in the am.

[doo_dr]

&#34;Drive In Mountain Guides&#34; =&#34;Self Serve Funeral Homes&#34;. It just doesn&#39;t make sense and in my opinion is that it doesn&#39;t belong. I have seen local guides that haven&#39;t been in the mountains in a week &#40;some guide service from Jackson&#41;that have run into trouble because they were not fimiliar with the changing conditions from the previous week. I don&#39;t want people to think this is a sales pitch. Do what you want but remember that you are vacationing in one of the most awesome spots in the country, and it can &#34;Kill You&#34; if you aren&#39;t paying attention and planning.

[Firecatguy]

doospunk--My helmet cam is running at ALL times-so you can run but you cant hide. lol

sounds good--cant wait clock is a tickin

Carter,
seeya in 11 weeks ----group of ten coming your way!!!yeeeehaw

[carter]

I&#39;m pumped!!!

[carter]

Team ring Ding is awesome with that camera. So be on your guard.

[Firecatguy]

oh ya

Olsman,
we all still hit the UP when the BIG snow hits-- makes time passs between trips!!!lol

[einne]

Green Bay:

Date: November 13th Friday or November 14th Saturday

Location: Hilton Garden Inn Green Bay 1015 Lombardi Ave Green Bay, WI 54304

920-405-0400

Wolf Meeting Room

&#42;&#42;Within a block of the Snowmobile USA Show in Shopko Hall Nov 13 &amp;14.

Time: Friday 6-10pm, Saturday 9am-1pm

To sign up: Email Mike Duffy: duffyww1@aol.com or call 970-390-9433



Madison:

Date: November 12th Thursday

Location: The Engelhart Center. 1589 Greenway Cross Madison, WI 53713. www.engelhart.com (http://www.engelhart.com)

Time: Thursday 6-10pm

To sign up: Email Shawn Kelly: shawn@engelhart.com or call 608-204-0149

Four hour avalanche awareness, avoidance and rescue class.

[techsledder]

We&#39;re all set for Tog! Pat, thanks again for all your help.

[mikes99ss]

A good tip for all of you guys that are thinking about going out to Togwotte this year is to go to one of the snowmobile shows they are at. They usually give a 10% discount to show people. I don&#39;t know there full schedule but I know they are going to be at Milwaukee this year. 10% may not seam like all that much but if you get the package and stay for a week or more it can add up to a good savings!!
http://www.snowmobileusa.com/shows.shtml#milwaukee

[polarisrider1]

Also join Sledheads thru www.Snowest.com (http://www.Snowest.com) You can get a 10% Tog. discount by being a member. The Magazine alone is worth joining.

[uperjim]

ok---just got back from out west with my wife and we stopped at Togwotee so I could show her the place. Have not read this entire post &#40;not even unpacked yet!&#41; but just to let everyone know that Ben has apparantly accepted another position and will not be at Togwotee this year.This comes from the gal at the desk at the lodge---no more info than that. He was apparantly there this week but this is his last week. I was there on Wednesday. They were shut down so we did not stay there. Hope they get a good replacement and soon as Ben was always the best guy to deal with.

[Firecatguy]

wow that suks he nice guy!!didnt say anything at Haydays told us to call him this winter if we needed anything...

[carter]

Don&#39;t let this bother anyone. Susan, the RES. person can do the job. She is being assisted by Dereck the front desk MGR. They won&#39;t skip a beat.

[techsledder]

From Snowest posting on TML (http://snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170811).

[driftjumper]

Ben is now the GM at Electric Mountain Lodge (http://www.electricmountainlodge.com) in Colorado on the Grand Mesa.

I rode there last year and I can tell you there is a HUGE area of almost endless boondocking. The terrain is overall not as extreme as places like Togwotee, the Snowies, or Cooke City, but there are definitely some nice big pulls to be found and cliff lines to be dropped. I think the most appealing quality of the area though is that there is such a large area to explore and there is a very well established trail system to parallel while doing your boondocking. Plus it&#39;s nowhere near as crowded as other popular places. The Grand Mesa gets a few hundred inches of snow on average.

I&#39;m actually building the website for EML, there is just a temp page now. I&#39;m also suggesting to them to become a supporter of this site and a few others since I know so many of us &#34;flatlanders&#34; talk about the places we stay on them.

If you&#39;re interested in more info on EML or riding on the Grand Mesa, here is Ben&#39;s email - ben@electricmountainlodge.com (ben@electricmountainlodge.com) or call 970-929-5522.

I&#39;ll likely post a new thread on here when the EMl website goes live.

[Hoosier]

Will/Does EML offer sled rentals?

[driftjumper]

They don&#39;t right now, but as soon as they can they will have rentals and hopefully guides available as well.

It&#39;s just a matter of getting all of the proper licensing, etc.

[minnesotagirl]

I wanted to clear up some information about the guys that had to spend the night in the backcountry out at Togwotee. I&#39;m not going to mention any names but the &#34;leader&#34; is a wonderful guy and yes he does know what he is doing and where he is going out there. Anybody that has ever rode with him will tell you that. They did not have to spend the night out there because of the &#34;leader&#34; not knowing where they were or not being able to get them out. They spent the night because an unexpected white-out storm rolled in within a matter of minutes. There was no warning - one minute the sun was shining over the tops of the hills, then next it was snowing so hard you couldn&#39;t see the front of your snowmobile. They did attempt to get back out but with how hard it was snowing the &#34;leader&#34; decided they had better stay put and not risk the chance of losing someone in the whiteout. So they built themselves a shelter and started a fire - just in case the storm lasted a long time. They had called back to the lodge shortly after dark and told us their GPS coordinates, that they were all ok, nobody was hurt, and they were prepared to spend the night if the snow didn&#39;t let up.

We checked it out on a map, found out where they were and decided to try and get to them even though it was still snowing so hard you couldn&#39;t see 15 feet in front of you. The snow once again hindered &#34;rescue&#34; efforts, same reason the chopper didn&#39;t go out that night to &#34;save&#34; them. The decision was made that as soon as the sun came up they would go out again.

Next morning they all went out again, I think there was one guide from TML that went along. If my memory serves me right he got to a certain point and told the rest of the guys that under company policy he couldn&#39;t go any further. Good thing these guys had friends trying to help them and not the lodge. Anyways, they got to them and yes the guys were thrilled to see them - mainly because they were thirsty and wanted some gatorade. That was the only thing they didn&#39;t have enough of to go around. They had a few sleds stuck from attempts made when the snowstorm hit that they gladly accepted the help of getting unstuck. The helicopter only landed to make sure nobody needed medical assistance. Guess your in pretty good hands when you ride with a surgeon and an EMT as part of your group.

They did come back to the lodge looking pretty horrible - I think we all would if we had to sleep on pine tree branches. But just out of curiosity how many people would actually have been prepared to sleep out in the woods - they were. How many people carry a satellite phone? There is no cell reception anywhere out there unless you&#39;re at the lodge. How many people have enough food and supplies to take care of not only themselves but others who may be a little underequipped? How many carry a GPS so if you break-down you can let someone know exactly where you are?

This is becoming quite a long post but I felt the need to defend my friends actions and explain the real story. If you talk to them about this now - they would do it again, I&#39;ve heard a few of them say it was a neat experience, only this time they would make sure they have a deck of cards to keep them entertained.

As for the &#34;leader&#34; I&#39;m bummed I have to wait till next winter to ride with him and everyone else in that group - they are truly wonderful people and amazing snowmobilers.

[lookin4snow]

Minnesotagirl,

Good clarification. I would like to comment on a few things that you said. First of all, there are many of us that are prepared to spend the night. Our group is prepared to spend the night and do what your friends did. We almost did it last year, with similar weather conditions, and decided to walk out because we were in radio communication with another group. If you are going to ride out west, you had better have the staples on your sled and in your backpack for emergencies.

Regarding cell service in the TML area, you are incorrect stating that the only place there is service is by the lodge. There is cell service many places, you just need to get high. But by no means is cell coverage great. I’ll explain by example. A few years ago we had an emergency with someone who tagged along with our group. He was highmarking a slope and rolled the sled on top of himself. We could see he was in trouble as his legs were flailing and then all movement stopped. We were trying to get to him but were having a hard time stopping our sleds on the steep slope. We finally got to him, unconscious, not breathing, sky blue in the face from the handlebars of the sled pinching off his airway. We immediately went into rescue mode and divided and concurred the situation. My job was to get GPS coordinates and call for a helicopter. Also called TML. I just had to get high. I can tell you that before the helicopter got there two guides from TML were there with a rescue sled, medical supplies, and additional assistance to help out. At the end of the day the story has a happy ending with the individual recovering and waiving the helicopter ride. We all learned a lot that day, including that the rental shop and guide staff from TML are your friends in the backcountry. I have other less dramatic examples that I have participated in with the guides, but they are your friends.

Glad everyone in your group was OK.

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/116866.jpg

[minnesotagirl]

4snow - I&#39;m glad to hear that you guys had what was needed to help the guy out and that you were able to get high enough to get a call put in. Could have been a lot worse situation.

I agree that the lodge is there to help you. They were the ones who took the call and found us to relay the message, they also called search and rescue for us. Thankfully it wasn&#39;t needed for our group. As for the guide, he left a pretty bad impression on those involved, but we realized he was concerned about his job and figured that all involved knew what to do so he felt it was ok to back down.

I didn&#39;t mean to rub anyone the wrong way by saying someone might be ill prepared - just giving examples of things these guys had that some people could overlook. You can never have too much survival gear when you are riding out there.

As for the photo - it&#39;s pretty amazing to watch that thing land and take off. Hopefully all of you that are planning trips out there don&#39;t get the chance to see it though. Not every story involving a helicopter has a happy ending.

Everyone be safe and have a blast - Togwotee will give you memories that last a lifetime.

[lookin4snow]

Your recommendations were spot on – no rubbing here. Each group needs to have ample safety gear. There are a few other threads out here regarding what to pack and have with you. The guides say, if you don’t have a beacon, shovel, probe and pack with safety gear, stay on the trail.

[biff]

A guide is NOT a guarentee that any of that will not happen but know that guides do carry SPOTs and emergency gear and do have a window of check in time at the lodge. I have learned all of this from HIRING a guide. I am now more prepared myself&#40;Hmm self responsibilty now there a concept&#41;. I would imagine that the guide had a good reason for not taking his rescue efforts a bit further, maybe cause you shouldnt have gone in there and its more danger than what he could deal with, just a thought. after all they are human not magicians. I dont fault these guys for going without a guide, thats why we live in the USA freedom of choice. I choose a guide because I believe it inhances my enjoyment of the trip and a little peice of mind is nice also.

[minnesotagirl]

I don&#39;t know what his true reasons for not wanting to help were if they were not what he had told them. What I do know is that they hadn&#39;t even reached where the guys were at before he stated he COULDN&#39;T go any further. There was nothing too dangerous at all about where they were. Same terrain you find almost everywhere out there - the only thing that kept them where they were was the lack of visibility. They had heard the sleds come out the previous night looking for them and they stayed put because they knew we would come back out in the morning.

Everyone has their own opinion on what is the best way to experience mountain riding Some like to ride with a guide and meet new people, others&#40;like me&#41;prefer to stick just to the group they are comfortable riding with. Being a girl it&#39;s pretty nerve racking riding with new people. I&#39;m the one that sticks out like a sore thumb when were getting the sleds ready in the morning. Luckily I am able to prove myself and after the first couple climbs most of them forget they are riding with a girl. But for me that is one of the huge reasons why I stick to riding with the same people. We have gotten used to each others styles, abilities, and personalities. There&#39;s nothing right or wrong about either way, it&#39;s a personal choice. Who knows maybe some day I will try with a guide, just to see if there is something I&#39;m missing out onhttp://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

[Firecatguy]

I just like to give my 02.


so you guys are upset because? The guide that{you didn&#39;t hire} and right form your post {you didn&#39;t need} would not go out and get your friends?

in your words you didn&#39;t need any help!!

I&#39;m not sure if I understand nor do I care too..

we rode that day and we also got back in just fine..

I&#39;m not trying to start anything here but if your saying you don&#39;t hire a guide that OK!!never said you had too..BUT its another thing to come on an open forum and complain that the guides didn&#39;t save your friends or he turned back!!that is B.S....

the guides out there are a great group of guys!!!sounds to me like it was a hard situation to deal with..

Helicopter,search party and yet all they wanted was a deck of cards???sounds like alot people came to the rescue only to be turned back..

[biff]

Well Im thinking there is more to this story than we know. I to was also at the trail head in the AM when they came out, It did look like they had an adventure but a damn scary one. I looked one guy in the eye that was riding out with his helmet off and he looked like he had just been to <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> and back.Im guessing since your party was staying at the lodge,Togwotee maybe felt some sort of obligation to send one of their guys out to assist if possible. For what reasons he didnt continue we will never know. Maybe he was told only to go so far and thats it. I think it was very cool that there is a place that would at least send a guy with. Please don&#39;t hate them on an open forum. You and your group should try riding with others. I have learned alot and taught alot from that experience. You find yourself getting challenged and there is not a better feeling than knowing you are challenging someone else.

[minnesotagirl]

I never said anywhere in my posts that I was complaining about the guides or that I was upset with them, nor did I say or intend to mean that anyone&#39;s &#40;the guide/chopper guys&#41; actions were unappreciated. I was simply putting out facts that you did not know when you stated the story as if you had first hand experience.

We also rode that day in a different area and made it back fine as did the rest of the lodge. The area they were in had some pretty steep climbs to get back out and like I said before they had decided it was better to stick it out than risk losing someone somewhere in the whiteout which didn&#39;t let up in the higher elevations till about 2am. They were going to get themselves out then since the moon was shining so bright but they decided to wait cause they knew we&#39;d be back first thing in the morning.

They did appreciate the help that came for them as they were drained from having to sleep outside and really didn&#39;t feel like getting their sleds unstuck.