Wis. Senate Bill 264

[campfire42]

I just read about this Wisconsin Bill 264 soon to be passed making it a crime to go off trail while snowmobiling or ATVing on public land. Thinking about the different reasons to go off trail on public land, I don't like this. What do you all think about this, and how can we possibly stop it?

[rakins800]

me being a trail rider,I have no problem with it.

[jimjones]

Scary..imagine all the prisons filled with those evil, non-conforming, polluting snowmobilers. If they just would have seen the movie, An Inconveniant Truth.. So sad.

[crispyknite]

There is a lot of pubic land that you can ride in north west wisconsin thats are fire lanes. Whats the reason for this Bill? I think its dumb, A lot more people are buying long tracks or going long too. If they do this its going to hurt. people will not go to wis to spend money. they did it once with the trail pass going to $35. I dont understand all this. Wis is a graet place to ride. I hope they dont follow mn with all they dumb laws.

[blutooth]

This is an issue to not take lightly. This is PUBLIC land that we have just as much right to use as other people.

This issue is happening on a national level out west: http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/Action_Alerts/09/SAWS_Action_Alert_-_NREPA_in troduced_in_111th_Congress.htm (http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/Action_Alerts/09/SAWS_Action_Alert_-_NREPA_introduced_in_111th_Congress.htm)

It is very scary that it is coming to Wisconsin too. I hope everyone takes a minute to contact their State Senator and let them know they are opposed to this proposed bill:
http://www.legis.wisconsin.gov/w3asp/waml/waml.aspx

Read the bill here: http://www.legis.state.wi.us/2009/data/SB-264.pdf

rakin800-
Don't worry the next thing to go will be the trail system.

You can also join a local club which I'm sure is also fighting this.

Blutooth

[rakins800]

follow the money.snowmobiles will be ridden,it will just cost more money.when/if the trails are gone people will ride out west. every time something closes or changes,some place else sees dollar signs. if one cant afford to go snowmobiling,do something else. beer and smokes cost alot too,but there will always be smokers and drunks,no matter what it costs.

[sabercat]

You can thank the dirtbags that left the trail and ran over those deer. They got away with it through a legal letdown, so if we get more laws on the books that won't happen next time.

ps: Wisconsin doesn't have enough snow to go offtrail anyways.

[ezra]

welcome to more nanny state BS. The way I see it is if is fed or state land that me my parents and my grandparents ect ect payed for. if bust me on a fire road or open swamp I will pay to take it as far as the court's will alow.and as far as riding out west dream on thay are closing 1000's of MI a year out west whole mountian ranges are closing. cutting numbers to yellowstone ect.the olny thing you can do is give the phone numbers yor your state and fed rep's to every one you know. ask them to call and call again untill you get more than a mass email back thanking you for your concern.for fed bills us senator switch board #202 224 3121. for MN Al's #202 224 5641( I call him alot never a response}amy 202 224 3121. house rep MN bachman 202 225 2331 {actualy called me back] ellison 202 225 4755 deff ears. MN house of reps switch board 651 296 2146.just calling your reps and letting them know your concern weather you know of a bill or not is better than sitting on your hands. thay cant read your mind and know what you are concerned about unless you call.sorry I dont have any nombers but MN reps stored in my phone go on line and look them up and call or you have no right to complane when thay stick it to you.

[campfire42]

blutooth: Thanks for the Wis. gov. contac web site. I used it.

And I hope we all will be able to continue using our machines to ice fish, trap, make firewood, etc. AND boondock!

[kevisip]

Vikes win!!

[2000sxr700]

kevsip, I am lmao.

[techsledder]

I just wrote my reps.... Talk about miss guided legis. if this is truly caused by the sledding deer killers. I am sick of this nanny state.

[whitedust]

Think of it this way. Can you ride your sled from home,motel, hotel the Holiday Inn to access the public trail or the cops going to bust you for being off the public trail??? This bill is a can of worms & could cause you to trailer to the trail head to be in compliance.....not practical application at all. All sled haters would constantly be on the phone to the cops phoning in registration #s of sleds spotted that are not on the public trail. Bad news for all of us.

[ezra]

just think about having to fill up with gas

[t660redrocket]

Sounds like you just care about yourself Rakins. Way to be part of the community! Have fun riding circles around your house some day!

[whitedust]

You are missing the point if you think it is about trail fees. 264 eliminates your ability to leave the public trail for any reason. Lodging, food, gas, repairs & of course off trail boondocking. This is a BAD Bill for the the State of WI.

[yamalaris]

I am so sick of the liberal’s constant barrage limiting citizen rights to access and use of OUR public land. Politicians wouldn't even consider a measure like this if we could demonstrate numbers large enough to sway an election.

Remember this crap on Election Day and vote every last incumbent politician out of office send the message that we the people are fed up and will no longer tolerate the status-quo.

[kevisip]

Right on Yamalaris. People are getting fed up.
Enough is a enough. These people ALWAYS want to change the laws, until it affects them.

[scottd]

I skimmed the 12 page bill perhaps too quickly but all I saw was trying to approve money to "create and maintain" non-motorized trails for exercise and "commuting" purposes. I did not see anything about making snowmobiles riding off-trail illegal. I guess it would be obvious motorized vehicles ON these trails would be illegal. In general the thought of taking public land away does scare the crap out of me and does not make sense to me. Go find some of the most travelled power lines by snowmobiles in the month of August and you probably cannot tell one has ever even been there other than the trail/road people use in the summer.

[campfire42]

scottd, go to Chain Reaction Cyclery: Senate Bill 265 , go to bottom of article, and click on where it explains 264. Very short and to the point. Cyclists are very much for this bill for some reason.

[rakins800]

t660redrocket- get a grip. do you really think all the sled manufacturers would allow/support anything that might take money out of their pockets?? and even if they did,i'm sure you would take your 3 sleds and ride elsewhere at a much higher cost. like i said,its all about the money.
and I still dont have a problem with the bill. rather then lashing out at me,you should spend that time helping promote safe,moral snowmobiling. as in Randy Salerno's drinking and riding and the MORONS who ran over the deer. those 2 episodes have much to do with this type of legislation getting off the ground.
as for me being part of the community,you have no idea what I do to promote this sport we all enjoy. I'm done. sorry for the rant.

[blutooth]

Rakins-

That is the point. There isn't going to be anywhere to use our snowmobiles. Every locale is fighting the same battle on some level. if the battle is in our area, we need to fight it for those who come from out of town (say maybe Illinois or Iowa) to come use Wisconsin trails. To believe there will ALWAYS be somewhere to ride is a little shortsighted, and to think the snowmobile manufacturers have the pull to control it is ridiculous. Look at the tobacco industry. Billions of dollars larger and they are losing the battle left and right - less than 8 months and all bars in Wisconsin will be smoke frees?

You are right though, if you have a large enough lawn, you will always be able to ride somewhere at least.

I apologize for my rant, but most people don't appreciate what rights they have until someone takes them away from you.

Blutooth

[t660redrocket]

Liberty. Look it up Rakins.

[t660redrocket]

Rakins wrote: "me being a trail rider,I have no problem with it."


Sounds familiar from history..........
Hitler's killing the Jews........with me having blonde hair and blue eyes, I have no problem with it!

I've simplified it greatly, but that is basically how that great tragedy occured.

I have little trust in government bills that tell us they will be good for us.

[ubee]

Bad Legislation being pushed through in a hurry before anyone notices. State Senator Jim Holperin D-Eagle River stated "Current law prohibits trespass by atvs,snowmobiles and off road vehicles on private land,but our statues are silent regarding public land" Wisconsin law just kind of assumes that public land is available for any kind of use including motorized vehicles.That wont be the case for long" Every business in Northern Wisconsin should remember Jim Holpern's name at the next election! This is alot worse than Meyers Bass/ Musky rule change from a cocktail party friend! Say goodbye to snowmobiling as people will go to the UP and ride wherever they please and spend their money!!! contact your state rep.why own state land if you cant use it?

[rakins800]

yes,bars will be smoke free.along with other public places. but people still smoke. its the MONEY. alcohol causes sirosis of the liver. and yet there are still drunks. its the MONEY. there are places in state and federal parks where its posted "do not enter" or "no wheeled vehicles".
or very simply "stay on trail". just because its "public",doesnt mean everyone has all access all the time,no matter what. thats my point. and I still dont have a problem with it.
I'm a trail rider who stays on the trail. off trail areas being limited really doesnt bother me much. this kind of legislation will surely be abused by overzelous law enforcement officials. same as a few years back in Michigan with the helmet during operation stupidity. law enforcement decided you must wear a helmet when loading or unloading your machine from a trailer. or pulling up to a gas pump after waiting in line. simply because the law stated "when in operation".
my guess is you should thank everyone who went off trail where it is clearly marked to stay on trail. we've all seen the tracks. it's been said before,if we dont police ourselves,they will do it for us. and this is what happens.
for what it's worth I really hope it gets shot down.

[whitedust]

I do mostly on trail riding but I do go off trail on unplowed fire roads which used to be legal. Not sure I could do that if this bill passes? I also ride plowed forest roads & unplowed fire roads to get to trail & don't know if that would be legal with this bill? I have been stopped by Vilas County Cops looked at my drivers liscense address & said have fun but if you did not live here I would issue a ticket for riding on plowed forest road. This could be a can of worms getting to the trail that I & others don't need in their lives.

[ubee]

Maybe a note to Senator Holperin would help Sen.Holperin@legis.wi.gov

[sabercat]

t660redrocket: Well said!

yamalaris: remember this on election day? Come on, this is a state full people that keeps on re-electing Doyle the user fee pimp. On election day they they vote for whoever is giving out the free smokes!

[campfire42]

I hope most of us realize that there are some local areas, private and public, that need to be off limits to what ever kind of use, may it be snowmobiles, ATV's, bicycles, horses, X/C skiers, even hikers. But to pass a blanket State Law, such as this, is just not the right thing to do. I hope the politicians get their act together before it is too late.

[techsledder]

I've talked to my reps office about it... the local DNR official... the DNR officer at the snow show. They all are fine with it. Am I missing something here that these folks are seeing? The local Rep's office even had a local snowmobile club come in and say they support it. I'm not 100% sure I belive that guy anymore.

[larry_d]

This is a terrible bill. There is enough snow in Wi to ride off trail. Some of the best rides I have had in the last few years were off trail thanks to a local freind with VAST knowlege of the back trails. Besides riding just for fun, how about access to your favorite ice fishing spot that is in the back woods et cetera? Enforcement would be tough, just another reason for the state to raise the regisitration fees for your sleds. From a Wisconsin land owner and taxpayer; state land is for the people, and there are plenty of good considerate snomobilers in Wi.

LD

[440_chazz]

Sabercat.

Doyle is not running for the 2010 election. He realized that with all his deals and tax hikes that he is not popular anymore.

[campfire42]

Fellow outdoor people. Of course the DNR, etc. are fine with this Wi. Senate bill 264. After reading Wi. Senate Bill 264, the explanation said it would make the Wardens jobs or whoever much easier, just ticket us all when we aren't on the right SPOT no matter what the sport.

[ubee]

looks like its going to pass,say goodbye to tourism in the wisconsin snowbelt. more change for the pocketbook! less riding=less enforcement. voice your opinion!!Sen.Holperin@legis.wi.gov

[booondocker]

Well, all I can say is...welcome to the U.P. cheese heads....forest roads, okay, cut over forest lands with seedlings...keep off...otherwise enjoy!

Liberal government, gotcha again. Jist remember that when you vote party lines.<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> really does matter.

[techsledder]

From my senator:
&#34;Dear Mr. Parker,

Thank you for writing. Although Senate Bill 264 was originally on the
Senate&#39;s agenda for yesterday, the bill was sent back to a committee for
further amendments. While it&#39;s unclear what changes will be made to the
bill, I will keep your concerns in mind should the bill again be
scheduled for a vote in the Senate.

Sincerely,

Alberta Darling
State Senator&#34;

Just an FYI for all whom concerned.

[ubee]

Good job techsledder, my senator never answered me! Hopefully somebody took a look at the whole blanket part of the bill and realized what they might make law!! Hopefully a whole lot more people contacted there senators.Thanks

[whitedust]

Your senator is my senator ubee &amp; did not answer me either.

[ubee]

I will remind him next summer when hes kissing babys at Boulder Junctions Musky Days! http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/your_image.gif

[ubee]

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/117435.jpg

[440_chazz]

Just wrote my senator from Washington County. Even though it is SE Wisconsin I thought I would give it a shot.

[campfire42]

All of the Senators have to vote, hopefully in our favor. So, I&#39;m glad that you wrote your SE Senator. We have to try and stay involved.

[ubee]

every letter helps, thanks

[crispyknite]

I like riding in wisconsin but if they do pass this law I will not spend as much money in Wi That hurts all of us. I can see in sum places up in Bayfield where they just platted trees, but they have a sign that said that and no trespassing. If we can just keep the fire lanes open that would be a big plus.

[crispyknite]

they are trying to do this in utah too.

[campfire42]

The Wis. Senate passed Wis. Senate Bill 264. I receiverd a cordial letter from Senator Holperin explaining their thoughts, but the bottom line is the bill gives the DNR or any other authority more power to use their discretion to say whether I am tresspassing or not with my motorized vehicle on off trail public lands. Some individuals might deserve such restrictions, but not all of us. And I don&#39;t know where that line is. The bill is now in an Assembly Committee.

[crispyknite]

I called washburn county in Wisconsin today and they said that might be for federal land only not county, so I hope we still good to go on the fire lines.

[campfire42]

Sorry, the Senate bill covers Fed, State, County, and Municipal public property. We are really going to have to know where we can ride.

[whitedust]

campfire42:You got it right there will be tickets &amp; you could get a ticket for dragging your deer out with anything that has a motor &amp; access to trapping lines &amp; ice fishing. Land is supposed to be posted no off trail but we know that can&#39;t happen too much land to do that so the enforcement is key word &#34;discretion&#34;. Boondocking in WI is gone so head for UPMI. Sorry Ma &amp; Pa but the WI senate screwed your biz.

[ubee]

It passed by a wide margin.Too bad sleds had to be included with atv, off road vehicles,unlicensed dirt bikes etc. Must be alot more people running rampant through the woods tearing up the terrain,trees and bogs than I thought! Just another thing that I can tell my grandkids that we used to be able to do.What good is State Land if you cant use it? I guess it was bound to happpen as there are less trees to hug and less deer cause they cant hide anymore!Next they will have you paint your sled blaze orange like your deer blind so they can find you!

[campfire42]

I&#39;m hoping that the Assembly either kills bill 264 or something. If not that, maybe Gov. won&#39;t sign it.

[fusion]

Interesting discussion, and I have something relevant to add. I&#39;ve been heading north to ride for many years, and Eagle River area, Vilas Cty. for the last 6 - 7. My young son, he&#39;s 12 now rides a 90 CC Yam dirt bike around my property, in the ditches and occasionally would run down to the snow trail, with me on a mountain bike. Then eventually he started running down to the trail by himself. I never thought much of it, and never dreamed this could be some violation, until one day last summer when he was escorted home, in a county squad car, this is an 11 yr. old kid at the time mind you. Cop was a real jerk, like the kid was some renegade dirt biker tearing up the land. Left the dirt bike on the trail about a mile away, would not let the kid ride it home, and made me run down with the trailer to get the bike. Times are changing in northern WI and I would not be surprised if some time soon our trail access will be severly diminished or threatened completely. Completely ridiculous that it has come to this, and just wait until all the resorts and businesses that have to close in the winter start going belly-up because they can&#39;t make enough money in the 4 - 5 month summer to survive. Strange times, but then again it could be alot of people tearing up land with 4-wheelers and sleds are wearing patience of property owners, very thin.

[campfire42]

fusion, luckily officer used his &#34;discretion&#34; and didn&#39;t cite your son.

[fusion]

I would hope that comment was &#34;tongue in cheek&#34; because I bristle at sheeyat like that. We&#39;re talking about a 90 CC, unlicensed for the road, vehicle. Good luck writing a ticket and getting it to stick. I&#39;d be inclined to literally TEAR something like that up if handed to me. I walked back in the house rather than listen to this clown finish his lecture. When I was a kid we rode dirt bikes all the time through fields, woods ect and never had problems with cops unless we were riding like maniacs through the subdivision, right down the road. &#40;Did happen&#41; I&#39;m looking for land in Manitoba, all I need is to sell the wife.

[whitedust]

Fusion: There are people in Vilas County that would have hung your son on the spot caught on a snowmobile trail with anything but a snowmobile is a VERY serious matter for about a year now. Recent DNR study killed all hope of ATV trails in Vilas County &amp; stated due to all the possible environmental destruction they won&#39;t consider any trails for motorized vehicles in the future. Nothing... no discussion.. nada... the Gods have spoken. Now they are tightening the screws on snowmobiles. Generally Eastern Vilas County more friendly towards off road motorized vehicle trail use including Eagle River for obvious reasons. Northwest Vilas County VERY HOSTILE wants you only to look a state land not use it for anything. Things have been getting very restrictive in the last 5 years &amp; 264 makes it even worse.

[frnash]

<font color="0000ff">fusion:
&#34;… all I need is to sell the wife.&#34;</font>
Asking price?
Maybe you&#39;ll get enough to buy the land in Manitoba? http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/happy.gif

[fusion]

Whitedust, yeah it makes sense now about this being recent change in sentiment. I&#39;ve been on the trails with pedal mountain bike and kid on dirt bike and seen cops with no repercussion. But that little incident changed all that and was an eye opener. Last place I expected to have a problem was Vilas Cty, and that&#39;s the reason I brought the bike up there and wouldn&#39;t let him ride in Waukesha cty. Might as well sell the dirt bike.

You say northwest Vilas Cty is highly negative about this? You&#39;re talking wide open spaces around Presque Isle, Winchester, Boulder ect. Oh now I get it, probably all FIB transplants that want it to be like Chicago suburbs.

Just wait, next on the hit list will be snowmobiles and I&#39;m not kidding. They will limit riding to corridor trails and make you trailer to designated drop points to access, plus charge you to park your trailer at park and ride. That idiot Jim Doyle is the reason for the statewide FEE h-e-i-l. Pray to god we get Scott Walker in there.

Give it 10 years and watch these tax payers cut their own throats by limiting winter sports. Unreal the socialist, liberal climate change that&#39;s sweeping this country.

[whitedust]

Well said Fusion. You have the Vilas County correct negative target zones IDED on map. I have the same concerns about ditch banging to the trail with 264. You me &amp; ubee should go to Presque Isle, Winchester &amp; Boulder Junction with all our motorized toys including chainsaws &amp; start them up &amp; watch all the naysayers take our pictures for poluting their peaceful environmemt. I read a Vilas County News editoral about some woman that was pissed because someone started up a leaf blower. I was like are you kidding me take a flying leap lady!

[renegade]

All a guy can do is go the wisconsin government site find the number for you assembly men and senators, put those numbers on your cell phone and call them and let them know your feelings on these bills and let them know your watching.

[jpsted]

Can someone please help me out in understanding the new proposed law?

First off, the bill has been deleted and been replaced with SB 264 SSA1. This states the following;

SENATE SUBSTITUTE AMENDMENT 1,
TO 2009 SENATE BILL 264
October 5, 2009 &amp;#8722; Offered by COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION, TOURISM, FORESTRY,
AND NATURAL RESOURCES.
AN ACT to create 23.33 &#40;3&#41; &#40;cm&#41; and 350.10 &#40;1&#41; &#40;fm&#41; of the statutes; relating to:
prohibiting the operation of snowmobiles and all&amp;#8722;terrain vehicles on certain
property.
The people of the state of Wisconsin, represented in senate and assembly, do
enact as follows:
SECTION 1. 23.33 &#40;3&#41; &#40;cm&#41; of the statutes is created to read:
23.33 &#40;3&#41; &#40;cm&#41; On public property that is posted as closed to all&amp;#8722;terrain vehicle
operation or on which the operation of an all&amp;#8722;terrain vehicle is prohibited by law.
SECTION 2. 350.10 &#40;1&#41; &#40;fm&#41; of the statutes is created to read:
350.10 &#40;1&#41; &#40;fm&#41; On public property that is posted as closed to snowmobile
operation or on which the operation of a snowmobile is prohibited by law.
&#40;END&#41;

Is it not already illegal to travel off of a marked or designated trail on public land? I have always been under the impression that if you stray from the trail in a state forest you were subject to a violation. Was that not the case?

[jpsted]

The way I understand this...is that nothing has changed in terms of where your allowed to ride and where you are not...the bill expands authority to state agencies to enforce and issue citations. Right now it&#39;s not a trespass offence if you leave the marked trail on private property...I don&#39;t recall the violation, but it was something less minor than a trespass and could not be enforced by all agencies.

[campfire42]

There is an amendment to the amendment, and I read it, but still am unclear on what it said. It might have given ATV&#39;s and snowmobiles some leeway to use them for access to lakes, fire lanes in Bayfield Co., etc, but unclear. It would be good to be able to read the bill with the changes included instead of referred to. There are thousands and thousands of public acres that the State and Fed. do not own and until now had little juristiction over.

[whitedust]

Simple you are off the marked trail getting gas, food or whatever &amp; you can get a ticket. Don&#39;t know if you can ditch bang to trails from anywhere without threat of ticket. Public land will be posted where sleds &amp; ATVs are prohibited. How the State will do that is beyond my understanding too much public land. We will be reading how this is being enforced on JD as riders get tickets &amp; vow to stay out of WI &amp; never spend another penny here. Very bad for Northwoods economy &amp; our sport.

[440_chazz]

I don&#39;t think the liberals care whitedust. Remember Tommy Thompson, Mmmmm mmmmm mmmmm. Those were the days.

[440_chazz]

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/119910.jpg

[whitedust]

My State Senator Jim Holperin Dem sent me a letter &amp; voted for the bill. Next time around Rep. gets my vote. He is a dope if he thinks 264 will help the Northwoods economy.

[renegade]

I heard holperin speak at the awsc meeting in point. He is a slick politician to the core. He made you beleive he was for snowmobliers on this issue and the hunting issue by his voice. But if you listened to his words he was saying what you didn&#39;t want to hear. Fusion is right about scott walker. We need to get him for governor. Everybody should be voting rep. next election just to balance the power out. Way to many dems in there.

[fusion]

Regarding Scott Holperin, don&#39;t listen to what they say, follow what they do, and what they vote on. If he voted for this bill, he&#39;s not a friend of snowmobilers, bottom line. These politicians have a way of &#34;twisting&#34; words to make an issue sound palatable to whatever audience they are addressing.

As for Scott Walker, he is more of a fiscal conservative that Thompson ever was. In alot of respects, Thompson was a RINO. &#40;republican in nane only&#41; He has done a great job as county executive holding down budget costs, even though he has a very liberal county board he has to contend with on all issues. My only hope is that Mark Newman does not weaken or dilute his support too much. You all know the reason Neuman got in the race in opposition to Walker, don&#39;t you? Neuman is supported by the ethanol corn producers lobby and therefore, ethanol mandates. You see, the corn lobby needs a candidate from both parties that is sympathetic to their cause. Walker does not support ethanol mandates, and that of course is music to my ears.

&#40;If I have misrepresented any positions of the candidates, please correct me&#41;

[racerx]

I do not think we have a clear idea of the whole situation. When I asked a fellow club member from the Vilas county about this he was going to look into the details but told me that it was already illegal to ride &#34;ANYWHERE&#34; you want ALTHO there are ordinances within towns/cities that let you access the trail in the &#34;most direct route&#34; using public lands. Now even what he told me is a little unclear as to what or how it is illegal but I&#39;m sure not going to head to the local courthouse and turn it into my own snocross oval since it is public land. I&#39;m sure we all know snowmobiles can not be used on any public interstates and smaller highways unless posted as a trail, I seen that posted &#40;it would be cool to use &#34;Trail 51&#34; from Wausau to Minocqua during bad weather&#41;.

The main problem is this is so unclear to anyone it is left up to interpretation from both sides to what is legal/illegal, this is the most dangerous part of it all.

[lvr1000]

I read on another site that Obama is going to place a new tax on 2 stroke injector oil and any new top end kit to help pay for all the health care costs associated with drunken snowmobilers riding their sleds across the White House lawn! Stay on the trail people!!!

&#40;Above was copied from another site, I thought it was funny&#41;

[sr22ger]

Sent an email to my pathetic excuse for a rep, Mr &#34;Guns in Elementary Schools&#34; Lasee. His assistant stated that the bill passed on to committee by a voice vote, so it would really be impossible to state which way each rep voted. She wouldn&#39;t state Mr Lasee&#39;s stance on the topic either, pretty frustrating. You would think that if he opposed the bill she would have gladly stated so in her responses to me.

I&#39;m curious about the already illegal to ride off trail topic some people mentioned, and I will have to research that a bit. I know it is illegal to run four wheelers and dirt bikes in a county forest near my home, but I don&#39;t know if that was specific to those vehicles/area or not.

[440_chazz]

Senator Grothman wrote me back, WOW he really does care about his constituents.

Charles,

Thanks for the e-mail. I apologize for the long day in responding. As you are probably aware this bill already made it its way through the State Senate. As I recently attended the Fond du lac County Snowmobile Associations meeting I have learned exactly what you are saying in that this is a well intentioned bill that will possible have some negative consequences. I do believe this bill still has to make its way through the State Assembly. If there is any hope of making any changes they would have to be made during that time. I appreciate you contacting me on this matter. Please contact me in the future with any other issues of interest to you.

-Glenn

[campfire42]

440_chazz, your Senator Grothman, as did my Senator Holperin, showed concern. But they both voted &#34;yes&#34; to the bill! As so often in the past, I&#39;m just hoping the next step of politicians has a better grasp of things and kills the bill! I kind of doubt it happening this time though. I just think we have enough laws!

[ubee]

Trees for Tomorrow fed Holperin for 20 yrs,not to hard to figure who he represents.I hope all the business owners in his district remember him at the polls! http://www.johndee.com/discuss/clipart/your_image.gif

[ubee]

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/120853.jpg

[ubee]

http://www.johndee.com/discuss/messages/9/120863.jpg

[ubee]

Its real nice that I have to register my atv and stay on the marked trails when there are no ATV trails in Vilas County that are within 20 miles of Boulder Junction! This law should not have lumped snowmobiles with atvs,dirt bikes and other offroad vehicles all together as snowmobiles leave little imprint and has a track and not tires. I have seen horse trails that leave big ruts and tree damage!

[ubee]

ttt

[campfire42]

20 years ago there were many counties in Wis. that had no place for ATV&#39;s to ride but still had to register. Fortunately, that has changed and there are now many counties WITH trails. Getting back to 264, has anyone figured out after reading the amendments, if snowmobiles and ATV&#39;s were excluded in the bill?