Buell Going Under

[bedgar7]

I have never really been a huge fan of the Buells but they were still pretty cool bikes.

http://www.buell.com/en_us/

[yamalaris]

As a result of huge losses Harley-Davidson decides to discontinue the Buell motorcycle brand, 180 jobs will be lost.

Harley struggles; so this will be another strong reason for the Dow to shoot up 500 points.

Who in here is puzzled by the inexplicable stock market rise compared to the every day suffering we observe on Main Street?

To me it doesn't pass the sniff test.

[techsledder]

Whoa, that sucks...

[brad]

Companies are making money because they have laid off or triaged jobs.........makes them more profitable don't ya know. This sends news to Wall Street via earnings reports and the like that things are improving. But they're not re-hiring or calling back employees, so "out here" in the real world it's still ominous. JMHO

[sr22ger]

Buell was kinda like Pontiac, not worth the investment the company was throwing at it. And when the company is doing well, it can afford to take gambles on visions like Buell, but when it's core business is struggling, visions are the first to go to retain capital for the companies core.

Wall Street gambles based on the best information they have about the companies. And yes, companies have regained profits by shedding jobs and costs, but traders are smarter than just looking at profits. They look at sales trends, companies doing large business overseas with countries not as hard hit by the recession and a ton of other things.

They aren't trying to tell you guys that the unemployed will magically have a job next week by bidding up a stock they think will make a nice return for them.

And I hate to say it, but I'll trust professionals who earn their living on the markets and economy to tell me that the recession is fading over some black cloud is looming random guy blogging on the internet.

[ezra]

trust a professional who makes his living on the markets? umm did not alot of those guys play a part in spot we are now in?I myself am keeping hard assets now days fool me one time

[samc]

fool me once - shame on me, fool me twice - shame on you, fool me three times - no helping you. Sorry ezra - couldn't help it.

[zr580]

this market is just another bubble thats going to burst,sorry.

[jimjones]

Shame on the foolish. Because the foolish have now been shamed!

Grape of Cherry?

[ezra]

no actually I think the foolish have been bailed out

[vx700xtc]

No, the foolish ( us) are doing the bailing

[jroz]

The problem is that these market "geniuses" are never playing with their own money. And when they do, it is illegal and stinks of "inside information." As always, it is easier to destroy than to actually create.

[famousguy]

jimjones, I am in line and will have cherry please.

[dcsnomo]

Some people make money fixing houses, some people make money selling snowmobiles, some people make money investing capital. Ezra, imagine if you had all your tools, your truck, and your supplies and you never fixed a house. You just sat on your equipment. Not only would that be a horrible waste of money, but you would have no income.

OK, now let's suppose you have $5 billion worth of capital in a fund that you are in charge of. Your job is to invest it to make a return that will cause an increase in the deposits coming into your fund. As with Ezra's tools, capital is a paid for asset that must be put to work. You can invest in China, gold, corporate bonds, start-ups, oil, or whatever. But the capital must be put to work. If you sit on it the owners will take it back and give it to someone else. Your job and your multi million dollar bonus depend on successful investment of other people's large sums of money. The fact that this money is now flowing back into the stock market is a very positive indicator that those with the big money believe that American business is a good bet for the future.
This does not mean the mess is cleaned up, it will take decades to do that.
Profit is not made by cutting heads, that is a way to improve existing earnings. Profit is made by selling stuff. Sell more stuff, make more money. In the larger worldwide picture, the rise in the stock market indicates that professional money managers believe that American business is now worth the investment. They may be wrong, they may be right. It doesn't mean the mess is cleaned up, it doesn't mean your neighbor goes back to work tomorrow. It means that those with the capital to fuel a recovery (to buy inventory, equipment, and hire people) are now making that capital available because they think American business is undervalued.

This affects me in my little business in Wisconsin. As capital becomes available I may be able to buy the other building I want to expand. I will have to hire contractors to remodel it and people to work in it. And, I will have to find customers to buy from it.
A saw is used to cut wood, if it cuts no wood it has no value. Capital is used to grow business, if it has no business it has no value. The flow of capital into the American stock market is a positive indicator...nothing more, nothing less.

[samc]

dcsnomo - my head is spinning - brings back memories of Economics 101 in college...

[skidoo50]

Very well said ! dcsnomo

[yamalaris]

dcsnomo if you are back in the market I wish you well.

A few years ago I remember one of these high priced money managers quote "people pay me to put their money into the market and regardless of returns that is what I do" yes I understand in any profession there are good and bad people, however we all work hard for our money and his lack of concern about the performance of his portfolio along with how he defined his job opened my eyes.

Wall Street is for the big money fat cats who have been manipulating the market to their advantage for as long as we have been alive. Folks reliant on 401(k) investments for retirement over the past 20 years have been kicked in the teeth time and time again.

The Dow first hit 10,000 back in 1999 TEN years ago, and when you adjust for inflation the Dow today is at 7,500 I will not get back into the market until you can show me the fundamentals have improved, people going back to work, our country getting a handle on the debt problems, the average citizen is maxed out on credit card debt and upside down on their homes, until these problems improve the market is all smoke and mirrors.

[dcsnomo]

yamalaris-
I agree, and I am not back in the market-it is a rigged game. I own my own business now, and will determine my own success.

[booondocker]

Yam, and Dc, I agree with each of you, and particularly the smoke and mirrors part. Unfortunately the chicken or the egg idea enters here, since confidence has to be a big factor in the economy improving. The economy does NOT have to improve for the stock market to rally and go higher, since one year ago, vast quantities of money were withdrawn from it which nearly brought the house down. This money is laying around in accounts drawing pittiful interest...and there is a big urge to get it to work, by the owner.

I do believe in fundamentals. Cash has to flow from banks to businesses, which isn't happening yet. Home prices need to stabilize if not improve, or the bottom still has not be felt.

As long as these "fundamentals" are ignored by the stock market, then it shall remain, an "I'm okay if your okay" prospect....but simply put be sure your seat is near the exit because there is very likely another stampede coming.

AKA fools paradise.

[brian_shawn]

There is still a long way to go. Main Street is closed, part of the reason I believe we are in this situation and I was surprised it was not mentioned in this thread, is the buisness on the internet. Internet buying has closed many Ma and Pa shops out of the American dream.I live in southern California where things are as tough as you can imagine for the area. I don't go to the malls all that often unless I need something from Sears. But my son needed something from a bookstore the other dy so we were walking through our local mall and I could not believe how many stores were empty or had inventory closeout signs on their windows. It was kind of a shock to me because I knew things were tough out here, but that really opened my eyes. I guess if you hear it you are aware of it. But until you see it, you don't know it. and I really feel for the ones who have to live it. I still feel like this is the greatest place to live, but things need to get fixed and fixed right.The realestate industry needs to be slapped. A 2x4 is a 2x4 in Michigan and California.Much like most people on here I could go on and on. Here is hoping things get fixed the right way so that our children can have a shot at the American Dream

[hibars]

I own a Buell XB12R, it is a fine super bike. American made &amp; I&#39;m proud to own it.I have had other makes &amp; rode most all of them. I am sad to see them go. Every year I am at Road AMERICA for the Super Bike week end. I always had love for the AMERICAN bikes. &#34; notice THE AMERICAN!<font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>