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handiman
06-27-2008, 11:15 AM
Hi John,
I was curious to what your opinion was on this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080627/sc_livescience/northpolecouldbeicef reethissummer (http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080627/sc_livescience/northpolecouldbeicefreethissummer)
Thanks!

admin
06-27-2008, 12:59 PM
Seems like more hysterics to me.

How do we know that if the ice over the pole melts, this will be THE FIRST TIME it has ever happened? We have only been monitoring things there for about 100 years. A mear blink of the eye in the life of the planet. It's entirely possible that it has melted 1000's of times in the last million or so years and perhaps what is happening or what might happen is part of it's regular routine.

Secondly, while the ice cover shrank to very small proportions last summer, it did grow back to average levels this winter and just 3 years ago was well above average.

All stuff left out of the article, not sure why, but perhaps because it would dim the impacts of what the writer was trying to convince us all of in their article.

-John

handiman
06-27-2008, 02:50 PM
Good points.

I suppose if the folks that write articles like this would give ALL the facts they wouldn't get published and get to see their names in print.
(Briefly on Yahoo's front page, no less.)

I wonder if an article with opposing facts and observations such as you mention were submitted, if it would get the same coverage.
Never mind, I know the answer...

Remember, if you see it on the web, it MUST be true!!!

Thanks for your thoughts.

frnash
06-27-2008, 03:56 PM
Well the article did say:
"... the first time in human history ..."

Which I think is also kind of a stretch.

Since the first "anatomically modern humans" were dragging their knuckles in the heart of Africa, about 130,000 to 200,000 years ago?

In recorded human history (since c. 4000 BC)?

Since the first polar explorers reached the Geographic North Pole in the early years of the 20th century? — Two claimants, Frederick Cook, on April 21, 1908 and Robert Edwin Peary, on April 9, 1909. Well maybe since then (although neither of those claims is widely accepted today).

snowfan470
06-27-2008, 05:25 PM
STUPID. Why do they never consider the Eocene maximum... when the arctic ocean was warm enough to contain tropical life...there were no significant ice sheets anywhere on the globe...and the temperature gradient between the poles and the equator was half that of what it is today.

AND incase nobody saw my global cooling thread...what do u say about this...

http://www.spaceandscience.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/PressReleaseS SRC1-2008.doc (http://www.spaceandscience.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/PressReleaseSSRC1-2008.doc)

handiman
06-27-2008, 11:22 PM
snowfan470 - I guess you made my point for me regarding media coverage and general public interest. Global warming or cooling - isn't it all part of the cyclical nature of things???
However, alarming the public sells movie tickets and gets you international exposure and Academy awards. Whether it's an inconvenient truth or not!
Sorry I couldn't resist...

snowfan470
06-29-2008, 07:44 PM
And i totally agree with u Handiman...i personally don't believe in any of this global warming stuff...i think its all part of the cycle of climate...earth has both its warming and cooling periods...

average_joe
07-18-2008, 05:29 PM
John,

What kind of influence could this event have on the upcoming season's snowpack?

I realize that any answer would be speculative at this point of time.

admin
07-19-2008, 04:59 PM
Joe-

Really hard to say for sure, seeing as how if it happens, would be the first time in human history.

Even trying to imagine all the physics and how things would play out is too difficult. Plus one has to keep in mind that ice cover could be average or even above average up there by the time winter starts around here.

-John

average_joe
07-20-2008, 10:22 PM
Thanks John. Let's hope for a good season. A repeat would be nice.

FYI - Smooth peanut butter, mayonnaise, or 91% isopropyl alcohol will get the glue off next time. Acetone will take the plastic off the glue - dissolves almost everything except some of the polyethylenes (PET). 91% Isopropyl is one of my favorite cleaners.