CNC Machinists

[arctiva]

I'd say go for it. School/work try it out. Worse that can happen is you dont like it after months of trying. But with that said i also would also consider that 4 year college and degree. 1 thing ive learned is when you drop all your eggs into 1 basket and 20 years later the economy is down well what do you do? Back when i was 18 i went into the electricial field did the apprentiship and life was good for the next 15 years
then things went south real quick work dried up and pay went back to days ive never seen and there you sit with no 4 year college degree to fall back onto. It may seem like a waste of time and money but a person can never have to much education and who knows what the job market will be like in 20 more years. Guess my point is with the 4 year degree your options will allways be easier for when times change. At 36 and a familly i cant just up and go get my 4 years degree now because my work field is in the tank.

[borderstaff]

Indy,
I would have to agree with Arctiva. Although running CNC's isn't that bad and its a trade that there SHOULD always be work on don't overlook the importance of a 4 year degree. Try it, see if you like it, but DON'T put a job in front of school TRUST ME I speak from experience.

That being said, I am a moldmaker in a small shop. We now have 4 CNC's and should be getting a new YCM high speed machining center within the next month. We have 2 sinker EDM's and a newer Wire EDM along with a few grinders and Bridgeports, lathes and Jig grinder. Our shop only has 4 people on the floor so its nice that I get to run every machine. I've been in the trade for 16 years and have seen the highs and lows...and was laid off from a shop that nearly closed its doors 10 years ago when the trade really slowed down (75% of the employees were let go and with 7 years in I didn't make the 10 year cutoff). Almost 30% of the shops around me closed down in the last 10 years. Now things are picking up again and we are overloaded until July with work. The best thing about my job is the variety - I rarely ever make the same thing twice so every day is a new challenge and every day you are on your toes to make sure that every program and setup is correct.

I like my job but its not for everyone. In our shop we are so busy that, honestly, except lunch, nobody talks to each other. And, lately, with every machine on its really loud - so, if your shop is the same, wear ear protection - you'll thank yourself in 20 years. Good luck in your endeavor - you've always been a go-getter from the posts I've seen and have good mechanical apptitude (a must in this trade) but, as has been said before, don't overlook a 4 year degree - in 10, 15 or 20 years you might really need it.

[jakester]

Don't forget to take spanish!!!! Then if you don't get the job, obama will give you things for free.

[yamahauler]

Good news Indy.

There is some truth to the 4 yr degree because it is unfortunate that the people that run businesses use that to narrow the field. There are some fields where there is no doubt that the 4 year degree and then some it needed. BUT there are a lot of fields that is not the case, BUT to get through the hope you have to have something. IF you are a quality machinist (not a button pusher) a true machinist, you will do fine in the machining world. There is a HUGE need for a quality machinist everywhere there is mfg. The other thing is that the retirement of these of a lot of these quality machinist is picking up steam fast. One other big piece of advice is to learn as many machines as you can. If you can master them all, you will basically be able to go anywhere you'd like. Good Luck.

[hemi_newman]

Don't forget to take spanish!!!! Then if you don't get the job, obama will give you things for free.

+1

[indy_500]

Well I just got back from the interview. It went pretty well, i thought one of the most interesting questions was "why machining and not engineering"

[racerx]

Well I just got back from the interview. It went pretty well, i thought one of the most interesting questions was "why machining and not engineering"

It does make sense as I initially went into engr, altho it was mechanical and others asked me why didn't I go manuf engr, but I still did not like the engr side from any perspective and wanted to make stuff with my hands. I'm in Process Engineering right now and everyday I miss turning handles or actually pressing the start button as I'm a little bummed since every day that passes by I lose a little bit of my programming skills but it does come back when needed I'm just not as sharp as in the past.

[Skylar]

Well I just got back from the interview. It went pretty well, i thought one of the most interesting questions was "why machining and not engineering"

And what was your answer?

[dab102999]

Funny this thread came back to life. Just the other night there was a pretty long story on the local news how the colleges in our area are pushing the "trade" classes a lot more. How so many shops (Berrien and Cass county) are looking desperately for qualified people to work in them. No experiance and they will train you and expect to start out around $10 and with experiance expect to start around $15...I thought the last part was pretty funny..If you think I am taking my $5000+ tool box and years of college somewhere else for $15 your nuts...lowes will pay ya close to that. It is a sad day when a trained trade is worth so little. Just to hear employers saying they can't find anyone with good work ethic....

Wish ya the best indy and learn all you can. A good machinist makes for a better engineer anyday in my book.

[Hoosier]

Indy - grab this opportunity, learn all you can, but make plans to get an engineering degree also. That will help to keep opportunities open later. I'm guessing you're dreaming of going on lots of snowmobile trips later in life, and you'll need to make a few bucks to do so...

[indy_500]

Well, finally the call I've been waiting for. I got the job!

[700classic]

Way to go indy!

[indy_500]

And what was your answer?

I said that I like to work with my hands and I feel you lose that aspect with engineering.

I'm just glad I got it, that interview was really hard, and i was really nervous during it LOL

[thebluff]

entered in the trade in 85. by 93 i started my own shop and by 2001 it had grown to 25 employees. i sold in 2005 due to the nature of the business...high stress, low margins and the fear of each and every customer potentially going broke.

i did very well, i love the trade. not everyone is cut out to operate a machine for the rest of their lives, for me i could not have done that...but i know many great guys that love it. i needed more, that led me to move to engineering and design.

my former shop currently is doing very well, i sold out but the shop continued. things are booming these days for those that survived...but about 70% of the shops did not make it the last 11 yrs. i am currently back in the trade, unbelievably working in a high-end shop in the west upper peninsula.

speaking as a former owner, from a few years back....apprentice programs are ok, but not of really anything i counted as important. i did the program myself in the late 80's and could have taught most of my classes far better than the instructors....on the job training is far better for this trade imo.

it is a good trade, potential for good money if you are motivated. you are inside when it is cold and wet and it is usually air conditioned when hot...good environment.

while things are booming now, the fact is that it is because the supply side of tooling is so small now. the majority of our things are now built on places like China and even middle east countries...and that isnt going to change until somehow the pricing scale evens out.

good career and now is a good time...i would go for it if i were u.

[Skylar]

Congrats Indy!

Matt, is this a mold shop you are at?

[jr37]

Congrats Indy!

[thebluff]

Congrats Indy!

Matt, is this a mold shop you are at?

Yes, Extreme Tool and Engineering in Wakefield. I went expecting a ma and pa shop but found a very modern and decent size company building high quality stuff. nice to get back in the trade again...much nicer to be an employee and not have all the worries!

i did mean to say regarding the apprentice programs....at least for me and most that i knew in the trade, it is far more important to have an employee that shows up on time every day and can follow directions...we could easily train anyone that could do those two things. trouble is, those are increasingly hard qualities to find, even in the skilled labor force.

[frnash]

Hooray! Congrats, Indy!

[thebluff]

Good news Indy.

There is some truth to the 4 yr degree because it is unfortunate that the people that run businesses use that to narrow the field. There are some fields where there is no doubt that the 4 year degree and then some it needed. BUT there are a lot of fields that is not the case, BUT to get through the hope you have to have something. IF you are a quality machinist (not a button pusher) a true machinist, you will do fine in the machining world. There is a HUGE need for a quality machinist everywhere there is mfg. The other thing is that the retirement of these of a lot of these quality machinist is picking up steam fast. One other big piece of advice is to learn as many machines as you can. If you can master them all, you will basically be able to go anywhere you'd like. Good Luck.

not sure i agree on the button pusher -vs- true machinist statement. aside from a few old timers, i havent seen a true machinist (defined by the contrast) in 25 years. the days of a guy with a blueprint at a Bridgeport or a manual lathe making parts by hand not only doesnt exist on any real scale (in my world at least), it is ineffecient and unpractical

everyone needs to have the skill to run a manual machine or precision grind something...but button pushers are capable of tweaking the programs to hold tolerances that before were time incredibly difficult. The computer allows us to do things that were not possible in the past (shapes and otherwise) to exact precision and repeatibility.

not saying that there isnt a shop out there otherwise, but most of us that grew up in the trade in the last 25 yrs are not skilled to manually do the things the old timers can/could do.

lots of very skilled guys but the days of a guy using the machinist handbook to choose the right cutter and making a gear on a bridgeport are past. super skills but no longer needed. one might say that the ability to manipulate 3d cad and design a 3d object on a 2d screen and remove the metal using your imagination so that the button pusher can then take it, adjust and tweek to get a part that is near perfect....a very equal set of talents in my book.

[eagle1]

Well, finally the call I've been waiting for. I got the job!

Congrats indy!!!!!!!!

Welcome to working the rest of your life. lol

[indy_500]

Thanks guys!

@eagle1, I already know what that feels like LOL. Since winter ended I've been working every mon/wed/fri and every sat/sun. 4-4.5 hrs during weeknights and 6-7.5 hrs on the weekends. Not been fun, and I mow about a half dozen lawns a week on top of that. And you can't forget school 8-3 mon-fri. In fact I worked 9-3 today and just got back from mowing a lawn that took me 2.5 hrs. It was over a foot tall, it was a disaster! Not to mention I got some nylon/yarn stuck in my mower deck (not sure why it was in their yard) and my push mower wouldnt start so i had to go home and get another one

[eagle1]

ha, ha yea you probably put more hours in than me. But all your hard work will, and already is paying off.
Not too many kids your age can say they paid for and maintain there trucks,sleds and mowers. Those life lessons will serve you well in life and I have no doubt you will excel in what ever career path you choose.

[yamahauler]

Congrats Indy.

@thebluff...agreed with the true machinist thing except one thing. If you know the manual mill/lathe and can do the CAD/CAM stuff, you are going to do well and I would consider that a real machinist nowadays. A button pusher is not a machinist no matter how you look at it. They generally only can change a few codes, not the 100+ that are out there. They generally can't trouble shoot a problem real well or think outside the box. They are usually trained to tweak something specific, setup something specific, etc... You give them a blueprint and they may be lost on where to start cutting if it wasn't laid out for them.

We tried to hire 5 yrs ago, interviewed 30 people...all said they were machinist. Then when asked what their experience was in an interview they stated that they loaded parts, change some code, etc... I tossed up a quick program on the board and said this is what the program did and what is should do, what needs to be changed and they didn't know where to start. They didn't know basic geometry, metric to english conversion, nothing. Maybe I got 30 bad ones, don't know but that is just my experience.

[racerx]

Congrats Indy.

@thebluff...agreed with the true machinist thing except one thing. If you know the manual mill/lathe and can do the CAD/CAM stuff, you are going to do well and I would consider that a real machinist nowadays. A button pusher is not a machinist no matter how you look at it. They generally only can change a few codes, not the 100+ that are out there. They generally can't trouble shoot a problem real well or think outside the box. They are usually trained to tweak something specific, setup something specific, etc... You give them a blueprint and they may be lost on where to start cutting if it wasn't laid out for them.

We tried to hire 5 yrs ago, interviewed 30 people...all said they were machinist. Then when asked what their experience was in an interview they stated that they loaded parts, change some code, etc... I tossed up a quick program on the board and said this is what the program did and what is should do, what needs to be changed and they didn't know where to start. They didn't know basic geometry, metric to english conversion, nothing. Maybe I got 30 bad ones, don't know but that is just my experience.

This is so true...We have some youngs guys that can not tell me the insert grade on the tool they are using yet the box sits right on the desk in front off them and they expect and continually gripe that they are not getting mid 20/hr since they are "machinists" and not "operators". You would not believe the knowledge level that is lacking nowadays. Heck the other day a guy could not figure out why his part was off 0.094" and blamed the program turned out he could not even use his calculator to add the numbers correctly and enter in the wrong offset. Funny thing the machinist vs. operator debate is almost a daily topic here and boy does it raise some feathers.

Admit this or not but this is part of the problem with manufacturing going overseas (not trying to start a debate) but how can companies afford high wages for people that have little to no real "value-added" part of the product, this translates to expensive costs to manuf and who wants to do that. So the places that flourish are companies that have the highly skilled people and those people are generally paid fairly well, but the products are also more expensive but can not be made elsewhere for a multitude of reasons.

[indy_500]

Well, I put in my 2 weeks at Fleet Farm, kinda feel bad since it wasn't really "2 weeks". I didn't get an email from the machine shop until yesterday and I went in today to put in my notice, I start the 4th at the machine shop and I put in the 2nd as my last day, but I had asked off for the 31, 1, and 2 to go to the Crandon Brush Runs so it was only a week really... Hope Everything goes well its gonna feel weird waking up at 430 every morning LOL