WI Trail Funding Poll

[blu2u2]

Would like to get input for the lack of trail funds that WI clubs face.

[eagle1]

I would rather pay more for registration. Please no stickers!!

[gary_in_neenah]

Guess I would vote for the CAP/STEP. My reasoning is that by joining a club you get something in return along with a discount on the registration. Registration only, you get an ugly sticker to put on your machine, the same for a Trail Sticker. By joining a club you meet new snowmobilers and there are more riding opportunities with like-minded people.
Adding Fee's is a slippery slope. Politicians are known for establishing Fee's and then raising the rates on those Fee's on a regular basis.

What's the driving force behind the shortage of funds? Fewer machines, poor economy, government waste? Anyone know?

[jr37]

I kinda like the idea of the CAP/STEP program. I realize that club memberships will not increase that much, but it is a good way of getting a little something from the "freeloaders". This program gets money from all sledders and sort of rewards those of us that do the all work for those that don't contribute any other way.

[rocky367]

Voted other, I think Cap/Step is just a band aid fix and a change needs to be made in the way the whole program runs. What is the fix? Not sure, I like the contract idea Minnesota has but I'm not sure that is a fix either as with the current system you pretty much know what your base funding is. To me Cap/Step focuses way too much on getting people in to a club and the AWSC and seems more political than anything, I just don't see people joining and coming out to help work trails. Will Cap/Step get my club more money? Most likely not as we have several larger clubs in the area that seem to draw people.

[arctiva]

Voted other

If people who use the trails should pay more then so should the bussiness that profit from snowmobilers. Most bars/resteraunts/hotels up north have trails going to them. Would it be to much for them to contribute to the fund to help keep there customers happy and on groomed trails? Im sure some allready do contribute but were talking about it so lets face the facts that its not enough. Down south here in even a good year they groom once or twice a week if were lucky. Up north they groom dailly. Why is it they groom dailly up north?? Sledding up north is about $$$$ down here its about fun. If i pay more $$ a year does that mean i will get dailly groomed trails down here? I doubt that. What about the years the trails dont open down by me do i get a refund?

Im tired of paying more for less. I dont go sledding with the mindset of im entitled to perfect trails all day everyday. my mindset is you get what you pay for. I think the registration in wisconsin is just the right $$$ amount considering the years we dont even get to ride trails around our home. Maybe its time to draw a line across the state and if you ride north of the line you have to buy a "up north" sticker. Seems to me say vilas county uses alot for money grooming and trail matinece then my county of columbia.

[blu2u2]

Guess I would vote for the CAP/STEP. My reasoning is that by joining a club you get something in return along with a discount on the registration. Registration only, you get an ugly sticker to put on your machine, the same for a Trail Sticker. By joining a club you meet new snowmobilers and there are more riding opportunities with like-minded people.
Adding Fee's is a slippery slope. Politicians are known for establishing Fee's and then raising the rates on those Fee's on a regular basis.

What's the driving force behind the shortage of funds? Fewer machines, poor economy, government waste? Anyone know?

The following link shows the income and expense for the 2009-2010 season in WI. NOTE the trail improvement (bridges, new trails, ect. were NOT factored in so this is why it only shows the $450,000+/- shortage!

http://www.awsc.org/LinkClick.aspx?f...id=100&mid=900

[chords]

Other

Not much can be done. Raise sticker price for few or hope more are bought. I dont remember exact numbers for MI but prob similar in WI.

300,000 registered but only 160,000 trail stickers bought. I know I had 2 sleds legal registered and bought 0 stickers. Heck one has been sold but still registered thru 2013.

[teamblue]

Raise the trail pass price,

[whitedust]

From Skip's update email today this blew my mind with snowmobile traffic so heavy in UPMI this season. Maybe MI $45 trail permit kept some people in WI? 30,000 less MI trail permits gets my attention & tells me wide spread Midwest snow would be dreadful for UPMI. YIKES!! IMO tread lightly with trail permit costs as these costs can be straw that breaks the back of the snowmobiler. To me do more with less or keep costs the same.

"With the way this past winter was and how our snowmobile season keeps getting shorter, it's important for a Tourism-based economy to diversify. One part of the tourism diversification is to provide an inter-connecting ORV Trail System. With ORV riders outnumbering snowmobiles, and the ORV Riding season being much longer, we need to 'tap' into this Multi-Million Dollar sport," commented Mi-TRALE President Skip Schulz.

It was at the latest DNR joint meeting between the Western and Eastern Citizens Advisory Council that the DNR reported Snowmobile Trail Stickers decreased this past winter by over 30,000. The DNR claims this decrease was due to the poor snow season. Lodging owners in many parts of the Western Upper Peninsula report that the lack of snow in Wisconsin and Minnesota actually helped bring snowmobilers to this region.

[renegade]

The way I look at cap step is the increase is needed, and if you want to get your money back, you can join a club for free. Yes it is political! The more poeple we have in the awsc the more power the SNOWMOBILER has in madison. Too many people think the awsc has an entity that will not affect them. This is not true. There are a lot of people who don't care if snowmobiling exists or not, and those that would like to see it go. The more people that are in the awsc the better. What is the best way to kill the sport of snowmobiling if you were a leftist environmental activist? Tell your politicians to vote no for any bills that increase trail funds, that way the bridges and infastructure deteriorate to the point where they have to close! This is politcal, no way around it. Either you play the game or lose!
As far as the money dispersment is concerned, I think a system with a combination of MN and WI would be the answer. So much a mile guaranteed so counties can buy equipment without worry, then flexible type of a situation if you dont groom that money can go to a county who is, much like supplemental.
It is obvious why the increase is needed. Insurance has doubled, equipment costs have rose considerably, and the most important fuel! There is no cutting costs to be done without cutting back on grooming or closing trails, and nobody wants this I would hope. In my opinion, it should be $80 a year to non club members, $50 a year for non active club member, and $30 for active. And all it would take to be active would be 8 hours a year, not to much to ask. I dont care if you do physical labor, or write thank you cards to landowners, but something! Too many people don't do anything. And if getting involved is not your cup of tea, then the extra money is your "small" part.

[jr37]

My understanding of the CAP/STEP program is that all the money will go to the general fund, to fund new bridges, unfunded trails, new trails, supplemental funds, etc. I don't believe that each individual club will be entitled to more funds. Correct me if I am wrong.

I would hope that unfunded trails would get funded, who wants to groom a trail for free. And new bridges, I don't know. WI DNR mandates for bridges is insane. Clubs are spending way to much on contracted bridges that could be built by the club itself. This past season our club had a 80' bridge installed for $80 grand, that is NUTS. But we didn't have any choice. We probably could have done it ourselves for $5 grand, that would be an extra $75,000 for trail maintenance. There is alot that could be done better for our system, but I don't have many answers.

[SOUPS]

I think the people that have there sleds registered in wi. should also have to buy trail permit. You always read on this site about people from other states registering there sleds in wi. because it is cheaper and they wont have to pay for trail permit. I feel if you ride trails; pay for sticker.

[ezra]

most of the under 30 people dont join clubs not because of the work involved in brushing and what not but most of the clubs I am in are more or less run by the moldy oldy we do it this way because that is the way it has always been 1 sit in and it is clear what is going on.
thing is the majority of the work gets done buy the say 45 and under crew the same crews that don't bother with the club trips or BBQ etc etc just there to get it done and avoid the old politics .opposite of what you would expect but what I see in the 2 clubs I am in .

I can think of 8 guys not including me off the top of my head who dont ride in MN or trails if it can be avoided but are always there for groming marking brushing fundraising.
I do it more or less so when I get to old to drive a snomobile and have to move to riding one we still may have some trails to ride.

[robo]

i agree with arctive. i do not mind paying my share of the bill but everyone should have pay there share too.i pay to reg. my sled this yr and it never left the shed.

[ezra]

I will 3nd that I have my sled reg in MN and some yrs have not bought a trail sticker knowing it would not get used in MN.I I buy a new sled I do buy the 3 yr sticker it is also a convinence thing.
I think every state should offer a 3 or 4 yr option with a few bucks off.
I will admit I have taken the windshiel of of a sled when selling and putting it on the new one I bought but hat it had a 3yrMN MI CO WI can you blame me

[jeff]

so what if we did this with autos? pay twice.... thats stupid that is why you register isnt it?

[ezra]

so what if we did this with autos? pay twice.... thats stupid that is why you register isnt it?

well with auto you do pay to register the title in to your name then tabes yr after yr and in my state the cost is based on the yr and value of the Auto

[blu2u2]

Thanks to everyone who voted and made their suggestions for this thread. With the AWSC Spring Convention this weekend I am sure this will be a HOT topic!
When I started this thread one week ago I was really hoping to have more than 39 total votes. Maybe the end of the unfavorable season and the location of the thread prevented more votes???

[ezra]

I think there should be no increse in funding or fees untill the DNR from any state in question realese a FULL budget including individual payroll.
then we can see where the cuts need to be hacked out.
in MN over the last 10 yrs the DNR budget has gone up over 50mill

[blu2u2]

ezra, please see the link that I posted above!

The following link shows the income and expense for the 2009-2010 season in WI. NOTE the trail improvement (bridges, new trails, ect. were NOT factored in so this is why it only shows the $450,000+/- shortage!

http://www.awsc.org/LinkClick.aspx?f...id=100&mid=900

[ezra]

yeah I got that budget I want to see a full DNR budget with a full break down of money spent.
it will never happen but I want to see it well it could happen in WI if Walker stays in for a few more terms he will demand full break downs of all tentacles of government spending.

[bearrassler]

I did not vote because I have not ridden in Wisconsin since the 70's, but I looked at how your trails are funded. The club that I am in grooms in two different states, MN and ND, and both have good and bad points. In ND we only have about 17,600 registered sleds and under 3000 miles of trails. Our registration is 40.00 for two years, and the state takes out $4.00 for administration and turns the other 36.00 over to our state association. We only get gas tax based on 30 gallons per sled per year, so our funding is some of the lowest per mile in the US. The good part is that the state only takes $2.00 per year and the rest goes to the State Association which only has 3 employees so our costs are low and the state association runs the grooming program. The state owns most of the groomers and updates them with RTP money when available, and volunteers run them. We can't groom as much as we would like because of low numbers but we don't waste much money on administration. I think you know how MN works and it is good because the club knows what it is getting at the start of the year, but the DNR takes quite a bit for administration.It looks like WS administration costs are high also. I think we are all going to have to try to get as much out of our money as possible because I see it getting tougher instead of better in the future, things like running our groomers an extra year, trying to get more volunteers (that is going to be tough), and taking all the waste out of the grooming programs that we can.

[Cat600]

The CAP/STEP program basically screws people like me that work nights, I can never go to club meetings and I'm not going to take a vacation day for a 1 hour meeting. And since most of the clubs around here charge you an inactive club member "surcharge" (because I can't make the meetings), I'm not going to join a club. I have been a club member before when I worked days, and it was good and beneficial, but times have changed. This program forces me to pay a penalty because of reasons I can't control? What BS!

But I would go with raise the registration a little, and require out of staters to buy a trail pass for the year, like everyone else does.

[blu2u2]

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