Mpg

[snocrazy]

It seems every one is feeling the pain at the gas pump now a days. Not a week goes by with out some one posting about it. I personally just bought a 2006 VW Jetta TDI specifically for the mileage. I am getting close to 45mpg out of it with a REVO Stage 1 program. The nice thing about performance mods on these diesels is the bonus of getting better fuel mileage when not hammering on it. I plan to get 50mpg when I am done modding. Also, if you think these diesels are slow, you are dead wrong. They are torque monsters.

I did a lot of research on these diesels. I dont understand why the Americans did not catch on sooner. First quarter earnings for VW in 2012 had some interesting info. 95% of VW sold in the US were TDI (diesels). We now seem to be seeing the light. These VW 1.8 diesel motors were introduced in 1977 with mechanical controlls. At that time the rabbit was getting over 50mpg. This is not new technoogy.

If you think these USA approved diesels cars get good mileage get ready to be pissed off.
I came across this video. It is a guy on a rant about visiting Europe and renting a VW BlueTec TDI wagon. With 4 big people and all of their luggage over 2000 miles aaveraged better than 50mpg.
He came back to the USA and tried to buy one with that motor. He found out it is not allowed in the USA. Seems like BS excuses for not allowing them.
Here is a link to his rant. http://video.staged.com/localshops/v..._mpg_in_the_uk
After watchingthis video I started looking around at the following manufacturer web sites.
www.ford.co.uk - They have a fiesta diesel that averages 78MPG - Not allowed in USA
www.vw.co.uk - They have the bluetec diesel option - 70+MPG - Not allowed in the USA.

What is our government doing?!?!?!?!?!?! I am not a big believer in conspiracy theory stuff but this sure looks like some thing is up. I am not sure if I agree that it is the GAS tax to pay for the roads. This might be some thing to do with OPEC (Big Oil) owning or controlling our government. There is some thing fishy about all of this is all I know for a fact. These diesel motors are being built in the USA and being exported. Not allowed to be used in the USA. One nice thing about this is it is nice to see some one exporting goods to the rest of the world. Ford and VW are both made here.

[cuzzinolaf]

Interesting!

My wife and I have been talking about a new car for her in the next year or so. I think the VW TDI Jetta is on the top of my list.

[scott_b]

Couple gets 84 mpg out of a stock Passat TDI
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...ntcmp=features

Keith, just get her a Passat, you will need the room.

[snocrazy]

Couple gets 84 mpg out of a stock Passat TDI
http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...ntcmp=features

Keith, just get her a Passat, you will need the room.

Yeah.... Hyper mileage crap. If you want to drive 39MPH and slowly accellerate and brake go for it. Be prepared to take all of the middle fingers and yelling as people pass you.

[snocrazy]

read the article, they did 60mph most of the time. I wish I had the patience to drive so slow on the open highway. Also going 60 on cruise control would putme to sleep. I guess I am willing to sacrifice some mileage for more speed. My TDI is getting 40mpg averaging 75 to 85 on the highway. Stopping at lights etc, I am usually pulling away from the pack.
Another mileage hit I take - When I see hybrids and electric cars I have to pass them and floor it so they get a nice black smoke treat.

PS - I am sooo bored on conference calls all day at work. Pleanty of time to post

[landoman]

I still will buy yet another toyota prius in the next year or so. I have a 2011 and driving back and forth to the Northwoods every weekend in this car literally saves me thousands in gas over our truck. The savings in gas pays for the $325 monthly payment with change to spare. I can not understand why this technology is not in every small car and SUV made aside from a small price hike. There is plenty of power in this gas / electric combo. Cruise on at 73mph all the way up north at 50mpg in summer / 45 winter.

[wilson]

got a 2011 ford fiesta, neat little car, 40 mpg on the highway.

[indy_500]

I get 13 mpg. If I wanted to, I could get a little car that gets better gas mileage, but, I don't!

[lenny]

I still will buy yet another toyota prius in the next year or so. I have a 2011 and driving back and forth to the Northwoods every weekend in this car literally saves me thousands in gas over our truck. The savings in gas pays for the $325 monthly payment with change to spare. I can not understand why this technology is not in every small car and SUV made aside from a small price hike. There is plenty of power in this gas / electric combo. Cruise on at 73mph all the way up north at 50mpg in summer / 45 winter.

don't take this wrong bud because I am just wondering: You are getting 50 mpg on a $37,000 prius and there are people out there getting 45-50 on a Jetta tdi spending $25,000 on a new one with tons more power. How long will it take for you to make up the 12 grand price tag difference getting just a few mpgs better?

You have a 2011 now and plan on another one soon? I need to know the economics behind this! Is the 2011 on it's leg? Does the 2012 get 2 mpg's better?

[bootjacker]

I have a VW Touareg TDI that I drive back and forth from IL to the Keweenaw, gets 28-32mpg and can tow 7700lbs I just brought back my 24' 4000lb boat last week and got 18mpg towing, my GMC Denali can't even come close to the quality or mpg of this car. for some people deisel are hard justify, for us the Touareg is full size seats 5 with room for gear, tows better then my Denali. it's a great car. I wish GM or ford would wake up and put a small deisel in a 1/2 ton or suburban, the U.S car makers are getting passed up and wil be playing catch up in the high mpg Deisels.

[lenny]

I get 13 mpg. If I wanted to, I could get a little car that gets better gas mileage, but, I don't!

Indy, 2 years ago I bought a 94 dodge 2500 ram with 8 ft box, diesel Cummings. A few weeks ago I hauled my sons car out to him in Virginia on a U haul car trailer and I got 20.2 mpgs. I get 23 empty cruising down the highway. I NEVER GET UNDER 20. I paid $4000 for the truck and it was from Texas, no rust whatsoever. I had many GMC and Chevy trucks, good trucks! Not bashing them but a real waste of fuel. I am a contractor and haul a trailer all the time. Haul junk to the dump on regular basis. Even if I didn't haul I would still but the diesel because it makes sense. Not saying to works for everyone but something to consider. Many people say I don't want one of those stinky, loud things. I used to say that but it's all bogus,,been there,,,done that

[Hoosier]

I have a VW Touareg TDI that I drive back and forth from IL to the Keweenaw, gets 28-32mpg and can tow 7700lbs I just brought back my 24' 4000lb boat last week and got 18mpg towing, my GMC Denali can't even come close to the quality or mpg of this car. for some people deisel are hard justify, for us the Touareg is full size seats 5 with room for gear, tows better then my Denali. it's a great car. I wish GM or ford would wake up and put a small deisel in a 1/2 ton or suburban, the U.S car makers are getting passed up and wil be playing catch up in the high mpg Deisels.

I agree - seems like it would be a no brainer. GM had a small diesel in the works but I think the program got cancelled or postponed after the bankruptcy.

[landoman]

I won't take it the wrong way. Not to worry. There are a lot of misunderstandings about the Prius. First, it does not plug into the wall to charge. The batteries charge each time you let off the gas and coast along with when you brake. Once the battery runs down low enough, the gas engine will kick in and stay on until the battery is at a capacity that it can assist again. There are some models that plug in but they just came out this year.

Second, I never keep a car long enough to know if the batteries last or not. They do come with an 8 year warranty but the amount of miles that car gets driven is insane so we trade every 2 years for a new one. I am by no means a greenie.

Third, the cost of the Prius that I have was 23,000 new. They don't move much on price as the demand is there do they stand their ground on that most of the time.

I am not looking to get into a pissing match on what is better. I get so many odd questions from people at gas stations and friends about how it works. Then they drive it And realize that it is not a bad car. Plenty of power, great gas mileage, and enough room for a weekend up north with the family.

don't take this wrong bud because I am just wondering: You are getting 50 mpg on a $37,000 prius and there are people out there getting 45-50 on a Jetta tdi spending $25,000 on a new one with tons more power. How long will it take for you to make up the 12 grand price tag difference getting just a few mpgs better?

You have a 2011 now and plan on another one soon? I need to know the economics behind this! Is the 2011 on it's leg? Does the 2012 get 2 mpg's better?

[Hoosier]

What's the best option for MPGs for towing a 2 place clam shell aluminum trailer? I'd probably say something like that Touareg but if you don't want to put the money into something like that (I imagine those with the TDI are fairly pricey), I'm thinking something like a smaller SUV or truck with a 6 cylinder, and then keep the speed under control.

[srt20]

I get 13 mpg. If I wanted to, I could get a little car that gets better gas mileage, but, I don't!

This is not a very liberal way of thinking, Indy........haha

[srt20]

What's the best option for MPGs for towing a 2 place clam shell aluminum trailer? I'd probably say something like that Touareg but if you don't want to put the money into something like that (I imagine those with the TDI are fairly pricey), I'm thinking something like a smaller SUV or truck with a 6 cylinder, and then keep the speed under control.

If not looking at a TDI VW, a Diesel 2500 truck will get better mpgs than a small truck or suv. If your looking at inexpensive, look for a 90s or early 2000s of your favorite brand. Change oil and fuel filter every 15k and call it a day.

[Hoosier]

If not looking at a TDI VW, a Diesel 2500 truck will get better mpgs than a small truck or suv. If your looking at inexpensive, look for a 90s or early 2000s of your favorite brand. Change oil and fuel filter every 15k and call it a day.

I probably should have rephrased...yeah, I'm looking for the most economical way...for this, I'd still say a truck or small SUV with a 6 cylinder from say 1995-2005 is going to be the cheapest way to pull a small trailer up north, considering gas, depreciation, upkeep, etc. It's new enough it won't require too much upkeep and doesn't have a carb to suck gas, it's a 6 cylinder so it's relatively unwanted so prices are low and gas is somewhat reasonable if you aren't pushing it by driving too fast or pulling too big of a trailer, and it's old enough that depreciation isn't an issue. I had a 97 Blazer with a 4.3 V6 that I kept until it had 183k, and that did a good job of moving trailers around without sucking too much money. I traded it in on a sedan with the cash for clunkers deal, but now we replaced our Commander with a minivan for the growing family, so now I'm considering replacing the sedan with something cheap to pull the trailer. Now that we have the minivan, I rarely drive more than 100 miles/week, so I'm not as concerned about gas mileage for my car anymore. Sorry for the thread hijack!

[indy_500]

Indy, 2 years ago I bought a 94 dodge 2500 ram with 8 ft box, diesel Cummings. A few weeks ago I hauled my sons car out to him in Virginia on a U haul car trailer and I got 20.2 mpgs. I get 23 empty cruising down the highway. I NEVER GET UNDER 20. I paid $4000 for the truck and it was from Texas, no rust whatsoever. I had many GMC and Chevy trucks, good trucks! Not bashing them but a real waste of fuel. I am a contractor and haul a trailer all the time. Haul junk to the dump on regular basis. Even if I didn't haul I would still but the diesel because it makes sense. Not saying to works for everyone but something to consider. Many people say I don't want one of those stinky, loud things. I used to say that but it's all bogus,,been there,,,done that

Problem is I couldn't find what I wanted with a diesel for $4000.

[indy_500]

I won't take it the wrong way. Not to worry. There are a lot of misunderstandings about the Prius. First, it does not plug into the wall to charge. The batteries charge each time you let off the gas and coast along with when you brake. Once the battery runs down low enough, the gas engine will kick in and stay on until the battery is at a capacity that it can assist again. There are some models that plug in but they just came out this year.

Second, I never keep a car long enough to know if the batteries last or not. They do come with an 8 year warranty but the amount of miles that car gets driven is insane so we trade every 2 years for a new one. I am by no means a greenie.

Third, the cost of the Prius that I have was 23,000 new. They don't move much on price as the demand is there do they stand their ground on that most of the time.

I am not looking to get into a pissing match on what is better. I get so many odd questions from people at gas stations and friends about how it works. Then they drive it And realize that it is not a bad car. Plenty of power, great gas mileage, and enough room for a weekend up north with the family.

I spend $40 a week on gas, or 140 miles per week. That comes out to $120 a month, or $1440 a year. Say I keep it for 10 years, that would be $14400 in gas for 10 years. My truck, cost $1600. Add that to it, you get $16,000 on the button. Your car cost $23,000. Say you're like me, and you travel 140 miles per week at 40 mpg. That would come out to $13 a week in gas, or $52 a month. That would be $625 in gas a year. Times that by 10 you get $6250. Add that to $23000, and you will get $29,250. Insurance probably cost the same i.e. old truck/new car. I just did the math, you still come out $13250 behind. My truck is bigger, sounds cooler, looks better, and can pull a trailer. If people just did the math....

Can't forget to add the interest being paid on the loan for that brand new car!

[dcsnomo]

I spend $40 a week on gas, or 140 miles per week. That comes out to $120 a month, or $1440 a year. Say I keep it for 10 years, that would be $14400 in gas for 10 years. My truck, cost $1600. Add that to it, you get $16,000 on the button. Your car cost $23,000. Say you're like me, and you travel 140 miles per week at 40 mpg. That would come out to $13 a week in gas, or $52 a month. That would be $625 in gas a year. Times that by 10 you get $6250. Add that to $23000, and you will get $29,250. Insurance probably cost the same i.e. old truck/new car. I just did the math, you still come out $13250 behind. My truck is bigger, sounds cooler, looks better, and can pull a trailer. If people just did the math....

Can't forget to add the interest being paid on the loan for that brand new car!

Indy, Indy, Indy...some major logic flaws in your argument.

First, a new vehicle purchase of any type means that the purchaser has bought time. There is only a certain amount off utility/life to a vehicle. His new vehicle has ALL of its life left when he buys it, a used vehicle does not. By straightlining your assumptions you totally ignore that in 10 years the new vehicle will most likely still be on the road, the "old truck"(your words) may be a puddle of mud in 10 years, or at the least, will have had significantly more repair cost. Since the new vehicle in question is a hybrid with batteries that equation could be altered significantly, but for now that is unknown.

Second, you are assuming that the price of gas remains constant for 10 years. Let's look at that...In 2003 a gallon of gas was $1.59, in today's dollars that would be about $1.88. That is a 101.6% increase in 10 years. That means that 10 years from now a gallon of gas might be $7.64, or it might not. But, we do know gas will always go up over the long term unless somebody figures out how to run a world without it. That appears unlikely. So, your truck uses gas for 100% of its travel, the Prius does not. If the price of gas doubles, the vehicle that burns less of it will benefit greater. Look at it this way, to drive a 20 mpg vehicle to Sturgeon Bay and back costs $4.94 today, if gas doubles in 10 years it's $9.10, an increase of $4.16. The Prius at 50 mpg costs $1.97 today, $3.64 10 years from now, an increase of $1.67. The purpose of all this is to demonstrate that the effect of rising gas prices is a geometric progression of pain to the driver, as the "pain ratio" or the "wallet effect" increases 150% more for the truck than the Prius.

And third, cars are an emotional purchase. The attributes of "bigger, sounds cooler, looks better" are subjective and unmeasurable. To you, that's cool. To someone else it's objectionable. They might want to portray an image of practicality and frugality.

Now, to be clear, I drive a Silverado half ton and when I come up behind a Prius I like to come up fast to see if I can get them to push hard enough on the gas to get the gas engine to kick in! But I know his operating costs are less, and he will be affected less as the cost of gas rises.

Later!

[lenny]

I don't know Bruce, I think Indy has a good point there. Indy can go get another 1600 truck and be perfectly happy with his purchase while it suits his personal needs. Bottom line is it fits Indy's budget and he's happy with his vehicle as is Landoman with his Prius. Indy is a young man just getting going in the world while Landoman has been in the work force and established.

dcsnomo, the factors you mention are important and certainly have a bearing on individuals but I don't think we can call it an "across the board" standard.

I fit into Indy's category but am 47 yrs old and probably don't make much more money than Indy and I do all my own work on my vehicles,,you see what I am saying?

[dcsnomo]

I don't know Bruce, I think Indy has a good point there. Indy can go get another 1600 truck and be perfectly happy with his purchase while it suits his personal needs. Bottom line is it fits Indy's budget and he's happy with his vehicle as is Landoman with his Prius. Indy is a young man just getting going in the world while Landoman has been in the work force and established.

dcsnomo, the factors you mention are important and certainly have a bearing on individuals but I don't think we can call it an "across the board" standard.

I fit into Indy's category but am 47 yrs old and probably don't make much more money than Indy and I do all my own work on my vehicles,,you see what I am saying?

Hey Lenny! How ya doin'?

My point was one of the logic process...Indy can't just take today's facts and go look, 10 years later it's all the same. No, it changes, and the older, least efficient vehicle will increase its costs at a faster rate than the newer fuel efficient vehicle. If the older vehicle has an efficiency disadvantage of X offset by a purchase differential of Y, what happens to the argument when the cost efficiency differential becomes 2X or 3X due to rising costs? Simple, it eats into the purchase savings.

Ownership benefit (OB)=purchase savings (y)-operating disadvantage(X)
10 years later it could be OB=Y-3X, which greatly reduces the value of Y, the purchase savings.


Oh, and remember, Indy didn't say his truck "fit his budget", which I'm sure it does. He said "If people just did the math...." and claimed it as a clear cost winner over a 10 year period using 2012 assumptions and costs for 2013-2022. Can't do that. The truck's costs grow faster than the Prius costs (assuming the batteries don't fail!).

See ya!

[lenny]

I'm doing good bud!

still,,, it's not a "across the board" standard. Most people don't care so much about the math and live comfortable. In these days people are doing the math and staying away non-economical purchases and getting more out of what they have. I know of many people who never buy new cars. They buy used with about 100,000 miles and drive them till they are shot and never have a payment and are spending much less and than there as those people who want a new car every few years and good for them.

Point is, even with a trans or motor failure, buying a good used car is a better plan if you are looking to save money. I believe that was Indy's point and that my friend is logical!

[radsrh]

I spend $40 a week on gas, or 140 miles per week. That comes out to $120 a month, or $1440 a year. Say I keep it for 10 years, that would be $14400 in gas for 10 years. My truck, cost $1600. Add that to it, you get $16,000 on the button. Your car cost $23,000. Say you're like me, and you travel 140 miles per week at 40 mpg. That would come out to $13 a week in gas, or $52 a month. That would be $625 in gas a year. Times that by 10 you get $6250. Add that to $23000, and you will get $29,250. Insurance probably cost the same i.e. old truck/new car. I just did the math, you still come out $13250 behind. My truck is bigger, sounds cooler, looks better, and can pull a trailer. If people just did the math....

Can't forget to add the interest being paid on the loan for that brand new car!

Indy Indy Indy Indy

If you READ what he posted he said he runs up north every weekend? How does that compare to your 140 miles a week? My guess is he is putting close to that one way just on the weekends. Now redo your math with the new milage in place. We have a 2004 2500HD and at the time a 2005 Mazda 3. We took a trip out to NY to see my sister in law and managed to fit what we needed into the back of the Mazda. At gas prices 2 years ago based on the miles driven we saved over $700 just on that trip alone. Now also look at the fact that he is driving up north every weekend with a family, hard to look the wife and kids in the eyes when you are sitting on the side of the road at night 120 miles from home because your old fix ur upper breaks more then it runs. Some times the price of new or newer is worth the piece of mind when its more then just you on the line when you break down.

[radsrh]

Indy one other cost you did not add in. You have a 10 year span and nailed your price right at $16000, start adding in the cost of constantly fixing things. My 2004 with 130,000 miles is at the point where it is $100-$500 dollaring me to death ( used to be nickel and dimeing me but that time is long gone ) I have owned it since it was new and always have done the maintance on it, but now I am starting to replace all the seals on it, the ball joints, the front bearings, and the other day the starter was acting up, did the breaks once, on the 3rd set of tires and the list goes on and on and on and I am thinking twice before making 100 mile plus trips wondering where I might end up with the family by the road side.