New Snowmobile Trail Signing

[mrsrunningbear]

Just my thoughts...

We all know the signs on the trail are going to be changed. I think we should educate ourselves and others on what is being removed so we all can ride safe. We can't complain about it anymore because it's a done deal! So lets educate ourselves, tell others, get the word out and hope we can have a safe winter. If everyone knows signs are going to be gone and they will need to ride a little smarter it might prevent some accidents

Here is a list of what is being removed and new signs being added

A Summary of Signing Changes Are as Follows:

Eliminated Snowmobile Trail Signs:
-Chevron
-Narrow bridge
-Winding Trail
-Trail Crossing
-Bridge ahead
-Two Way Trail
-Narrow Trail
-Truck Traffic
-Deer Crossing
-Drift Area

New Snowmobile Trail Signs:
- One Direction Large Arrow
- Private Drives Ahead
- Supplemental Plaque Next XX Miles
- Combination Horizontal Alignment/Intersection
- Trail Closed to Wheeled Motor Vehicles Ahead

[jr37]

I think that eliminating the Chevron and using a large arrow is a good idea. The Chevrons were never used properly in MI or WI. They were never meant to be a replacement for the arrow.

[mjkaliszak]

I'm going to put an acog on front of my sled that will take care of the missing " chevron ". As far as the " road closed " got that covered after a 175 dollar fine for going up a hill. Pretty confident i understand that one " thanks to the " FEDERAL officer ". He was of a elevated status, and let me know that as he be littled the regional DNR tag a long officer. He must have been showing him how it's done in the National Forest..... He also told me " HE " was closing down all the powerlines in the Manistee NF so no off trail or boondocking could occur down the powerlines that are leased to the big utilities. To provide us " power " ???? It was ironic that one federal officer owned the forest. I thought that was owned by the people of this great state & country ? Part of our natural resources for all to enjoy ?
Just being my usual sarcastic self, MY BAD . on the ticket , and I make no excuses.... It just sucked.

I do appreciate the signage info. No disrespect intended.

Lets see.... what else is bothering me today !

[Dave_B]

This is the stupidest idea I've heard! Maybe I'm the only one who cares but, why not try to make this sport as safe as possible by alerting riders of ANY potential hazardous conditions ahead? Informational signs would be nice as well. Gas, food, distances, etc.

I guess I'll just spend more time off trail. The forest roads are better signed anyways and trees approaching in front of you usually prompts a quick turn!

I wonder what the MSA has to say about this???

[dcsnomo]

They eliminated the narrow bridge signs here, too!

http://youtu.be/35BwwzqNb3g

[united]

I find it very hard to get info. on this subject and do not understand why that is. Mrs. Running Bear can you please post a link to where you got your info. Why in the world would anyone eliminate a bridge ahead sign? Will it just be replaced with the standard Hazard sign or nothing? I would like to see more informaion on this subject in the form of official websites or news articles. Where is some type of guide for the average snowmobiler depicting exactly what has changed and why, and what to expect on the trail? Did I miss it? Below are a couple of links.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dn...2_381136_7.pdf

http://www.midnr.com/Publications/pd...nts/PR1857.pdf

[russholio]

I wonder what the MSA has to say about this???

MSA is for it. I had a discussion about it at the MSA Ride-in back in February with some of the higher-ups. They tried telling me why they think it's a good idea. I understand their logic, but I don't think it will work. There will be a learning curve and maybe eventually it will work, but in the short-term I think it's going to be a costly mistake in terms of injuries and deaths; but hey, I hope I'm proven wrong.

[Dave_B]

There is no logic in a learning curve that will result in more injuies and deaths!

Sure would be nice to have the President of the MSA to pipe in here to get the logic from the horses mouth, assuming he's a member...

[mrsrunningbear]

This is my point, the rules are set and nothing is really being issued to the rider. The snowmobile clubs that maintain the trails are the ones that got the info through email from the DNR. You (united) have the right links, that's it, that's all we get. Mi-TRALE is talking to the DNR about making better announcements to the riders, hope they will do this

This is the reason for my post, we need to get the word out and let people know!

There are still going to be the reflective rail markers on the bridge approaches, but no warnings ahead of time, so you will need to ride cautiously. This is what they are trying to achieve, no warnings make people go slower because they don't know whats coming next

Dave there is nothing to do about it any more but warn the rider, I understand the reasoning and I do think it will slow people down but I feel if this information is not released better and the rider is unaware there will be some accidents that could be prevented with education

[Dave_B]

Maybe they will print the rules and warnings on the back of the trail stickers like they do for sporting events that nobody ever reads.

I do not envision people slowing down. I just plan to stay off the trails as much as possible.

[polarisrider1]

I can't see any good from removing signage. More deaths will result because the "Ricky Racers" will not slow down for anything.

[whitedust]

I'll hang tree art where necessary to mark bridge ahead or tricky areas where signage has been removed. There are a couple bridges on Trail 3 between Lando & Watersmeet that you come up on fast & I have had a few close calls thru there with 2 sleds on bridge at the same time. Not a lot of outlook going south in that area signs or no signs. I know most trails well enough to use tree art that is meaningful to me for dangerous areas. The less familar riders good luck because this won't slow anyone down Ricky is going to race signs or no signs. I would say look for tree art when riding as means something to someone or would not be there. Always a way around the system & dumb decisions until things change. I'll find a way to mark hazards no problem maybe better than signage if I have to do it myself.

[polarisrider1]

I'll hang tree art where necessary to mark bridge ahead or tricky areas where signage has been removed. There are a couple bridges on Trail 3 between Lando & Watersmeet that you come up on fast & I have had a few close calls thru there with 2 sleds on bridge at the same time. Not a lot of outlook going south in that area signs or no signs. I know most trails well enough to use tree art that is meaningful to me for dangerous areas. The less familar riders good luck because this won't slow anyone down Ricky is going to race signs or no signs. I would say look for tree art when riding as means something to someone or would not be there. Always a way around the system & dumb decisions until things change. I'll find a way to mark hazards no problem maybe better than signage if I have to do it myself.

Most tree art is made of parts that break off after hitting a tree when a curve is blown. Whole hoods make the best tree art. Blown belts do not count, that is just littering.

[whitedust]

My tree art is refective tape & colored strips of cloth tied where I can see them & prevents the more costly hood & plastic tree art. Art is art depends on you & your preferences I guess.

[mrsrunningbear]

Oh I'll bet even the ricky racers will slow down, we'll see tho Back in the day we had the fast sleds and no signs and I have to say we rode more cautiously. I like to ride fast, I always have, I have the need for speed but it is what it is!

Again it all really doesn't matter at this point we just need to get the word out to ride cautiously, learn the trails, the more people that know the better this will be

[racerx]

- Supplemental Plaque Next XX Miles
- Combination Horizontal Alignment/Intersection

What is a "Supplemental Plaque Next XX Miles"? I like the second one, pretty "descriptive", actually it does have me scatching my head "Horizontal Alignment"....

[Dave_B]

Oh, Linda! Always the optimist!

Reality is, other than those like us who have been riding the same trails forever, this will turn out to be a survival of the knowledgable! Even then, the Ricky's will be taking some of us out, too!

A quote comes to mind. "Stick to the road. Stay off the moors"

I'll be riding the moors!

[polaris4me]

From what I have heard other states have less trail signs, and it works there.
Off trail or two track riding has NO signs.

There will still be marker signs on the bridges themselfs.

It will slow some of us down, but some will end up in the woods.

[Woodtic]

could I get some of those old signs?
I can put them up,so Dave B can find his way home from my camp.

[Dave_B]

could I get some of those old signs?
I can put them up,so Dave B can find his way home from my camp.

You better get alot of them! especially on New Years Eve!

[caged_beagle]

What about the novices that we seem to have been bombarded with in this sport the last few years. I have no problem with the newbies but I think their learning curve is going to be that much more lengthy and dangerous without these supplemental suggestions that we have taken for granted.

So, again? What about the novices that need all the help they can get while riding an unfamiliar machine, on unfamiliar terrain in a high speed (usually) life-threatening sport?

_______________________
swmpdky2.jpg

[Hoosier]

I don't know how I feel about this issue or whether it will work. Bottom line, speeds are too fast and they are trying to figure a way to change that without general speed limits. The issue of the signs or no signs was debated to death over the winter. Anyone have any other ideas for bringing down the speeds? Machines are going to keep getting faster and handle better, but rider skill won't so the margin for error will continue to get smaller unless a way is found to control the speed. I'd hate to see a 50 mph speed limit, for example.

[polarisrider1]

Want to slow us up a bit, do the most non favorite thing..........stop grooming, nothing like 3 foot moguls to slow me up a bit.........But again, "skimming the bumps" has always been a sport and a standard in the LP. (is that what we call it down here LP?) lol

[russholio]

because the "Ricky Racers" will not slow down for anything.

Bingo.

There is no logic in a learning curve that will result in more injuies and deaths!

Sure would be nice to have the President of the MSA to pipe in here to get the logic from the horses mouth, assuming he's a member...

Okay, maybe "logic" was a poor choice of words.....how 'bout "reasoning"?

[mjkaliszak]

Lately... my concern has been for the riders I bring with.... I don't need them getting hit by an oncoming . Good thing to have your sleds insured incase disaster happens. I have been almost hit several times when signage was plentiful. Maybe some aftermarket company will come out with a barricade bumper for those of us that ride lead dog. I still don't like the idea....

Maybe I just sell all the trail sleds and make a couple of trips out west and call it good.